Monroe doesn't swing!

[ralph johansson]

Thanks for your reply, and for staying on topic. Yes, this is what I've been doing pretty much. Old Eb is a pretty repetitive tune, so it lends itself easily to isolating useful fragments. Sadly, I have to drop down to like 80bpm before I can reliably take the swing out and keep it out. Hopefully I can ratchet it back up over the next few days or weeks. And by "back up" I mean back to the still not fast enough tempo I was playing it before!

By the way, when I play Fisher's Hornpipe, I think I swing the melody. Haven't heard it any other way, but I haven't gone looking for it with swung vs staight in mind either.

First of all, whether you swing the eighths or play them straight, may have to do with the way your hear the pulse: whether 4/4 or 2/2 (2/2 is the default in Bluegrass).
Mandozine's MIDI is given as 239 bpm, which really means 120 bpm in 2/2, and I think only tension is in the way of your achieveing that tempo.

As for Fisher's Hornpipe, have you heard Mark O'Connor's arrangement on Appalachian Journey (with O'Connor, Edgar Meyer, Yo-yo Ma, and Alison Kraus)? That version might help liberate your approach to that tune.

[sblock]

Hornpipes, in their most traditional sense (Irish and English), are supposed to swing, in the sense that the the rhythm emphasis is not at all flat. The hornpipe is a type of folk dance.

Here is a demo from this site, which says the following.

"Usually hornpipes are notated the same as reels, as straight eighth notes, but with a note saying the rhythm is hornpipe. That means that it is really played with dotted eighth notes."

However, certain "hornpipes" that are played in bluegrass, or even some oldtime, circles are not played as traditional Irish/English hornpipes, at all! Instead, they are played with a much faster tempo, and often as reels (that is, much less 'swingy').

So it depends on the musical context and genre. I have heard "Fisher's Hornpipe" played both slow and swingy, and fast and even. Actually, it works pretty well either way -- but I tend to like it faster. So just take your pick, and find other players who like it your way to play along with.

P.S. And then there's Handel's "Water Music" from 1717, which has a famous section (Suite no. 2 in D major, HWV 349) called "alla Hornpipe." (in the style of a hornpipe). See here. Except that the time signature for this hornpipe is 3/2, not 2/4, and not 4/4!!! Not sure who would call that a hornpipe today... And no, that one doesn't swing either.

[DavidKOS]

P.S. And then there's Handel's "Water Music" from 1717, which has a famous section (Suite no. 2 in D major, HWV 349) called "alla Hornpipe." (in the style of a hornpipe). See here. Except that the time signature for this hornpipe is 3/2, not 2/4, and not 4/4!!! Not sure who would call that a hornpipe today... And no, that one doesn't swing either.

Because hornpipes were often originally in 3. Later they almost all became 4/4, but not at first.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hornpipe

"A lively 3
2 time dance rhythm, which remained popular in northern English and lowland Scottish instrumental music until the 19th century"..."The term was also used formerly to refer to tunes in 9
4 or 9
8 time. These may have been thought of as differing only in essentially from the 3
2 hornpipes."

[T.D.Nydn]

Well,Bill Monroe is the father of bluegrass,not the father of swing...