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Thread: So what is Meinel & Herold?

  1. #1

    Default So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Hello everyone! so a little story. I am very new to mandolin. In fact, I never meant to play mandolin. I just thought hey, maybe this season I'll start learning guitar! so I walked in an instrument shop to check some beginners' guitar, then I saw this mandolin on the wall. It was almost magical. I couldn't think of anything else, and the next moment I realized I purchased it.

    So here she is, very out of tune and maybe requires some string changes. But my question is what is Meinel & Herold? I suppose it's manufacturer of this instrument, but I couldn't find enough information on them, just knowing they are probably old.

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    Thanks a lot!

  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    It's not the manufacturer it's the company that sold the instrument.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Your answer is on the name plate. Meinel & Herold is the brand, "musikinstrumenenfabrik" is German for instrument makers, and Klingenthal is in Eastern Germany near the Czech border. "Sa." probably refers to Saxony, which is the name for that region. My guess is that the instrument was made sometime between 1910 and 1930.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    They were a manufacturer of accordions at the turn of the century. I know the plate says they manufactured instruments, I don't think they manufactured this one. I think they, like their counterparts all over the world were labeling factory built instruments that were built for the trade.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...d/&prev=search
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  7. #5

    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Aha! Thanks, guys. I kinda got tiny bits of information from everywhere but wasn't sure how to put them all together.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Tried to link to the catalog. You can view the catalog for this mail order company by clicking on the link in the translation. It looks like they were a distributor.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    They were a manufacturer of accordions at the turn of the century. I know the plate says they manufactured instruments, I don't think they manufactured this one. I think they, like their counterparts all over the world were labeling factory built instruments that were built for the trade.

    https://translate.google.com/transla...d/&prev=search
    I don't know. Take a look at this catalog page. Looks like a factory to me. A friend of mine who plays concert zithers says that Meinels were among the best maker of those. Catalog page with a few bowlbacks tho none resemble the OP's.

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    Jim

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Quote Originally Posted by MandNoob View Post
    ...then I saw this mandolin on the wall. It was almost magical. I couldn't think of anything else, and the next moment I realized I purchased it.

    So here she is...
    That's how love stories begin, let's see how this one unfolds
    My first mandolin was one from East Germany, too, and I discovered it much the same way.

    New strings are certainly a good idea, just choose a set on the light side because these instruments were not built for heavy loads.
    the world is better off without bad ideas, good ideas are better off without the world

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I don't know. Take a look at this catalog page. Looks like a factory to me. A friend of mine who plays concert zithers says that Meinels were among the best maker of those. Catalog page with a few bowlbacks tho none resemble the OP's.

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    Assuming that was their factory. Their catalog sure looks like a distributor. Bruno and everyone else claimed they manufactured.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    I emailed the link to this thread to a guy who used to post here from Austria who has deep knowledge of German instrument makers. Hopefully he will check in here.

    In the meantime, some small info here with an unfortunate dead link to a history page.
    Meinel and Herold, Klingenthal / Saxony, Germany, founded: 1893. A distributor and possibly a manufacturer of instruments including violins, accordions, harmonicas and guitars.
    An auction page had a 1940 student model violin and in that description:
    It is one of the last instruments that bear the original Meinel & Herold label, before they were forced to unite with the nationally-owned enterprise (VEB) "Klingenthaler Harmonikawerke" of the German Democratic Republic after the war.
    So, no real clue whether they were only distributors or actually made instruments. Of course, they could be like Lyon & Healy and were both simultaneously.
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    I have a feeling they evolved like the big distributors in this country. Many started out making something and quickly realized they didn't have to make everything and some eventually stopped making anything.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Stringed instruments have been made in Klingenthal for centuries. A luthiers' guild was established there in 1716. The best known string instruments are violins by the Hopf family, but there have been other makers as well.

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Bowlback No. 15 on Jim's catalog page is said to be made of "kirschbaum" or cherry wood.

    Others are listed as "jakaranda" which sounds lovely. I know the tree by that name but didn't know it was used in instrument making. Web search suggests the name was bandied for non Dalbergia "rosewoods". Maybe some knows something more?

    Those factory photos sure look like they would be "rauchen verboten!" zones. Or I hope so.

    Mick

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    I always thought that jacarandá was directly translated as rosewood, at least for instruments or furniture.
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    I own a Meinel & Herold myself, and also know little about the company. So it's very interesting to read about it here!
    As it's said above, they sold many kinds of Instruments (also MandoBanjos, btw), but I do not know what they manufactured themselves.
    My mandolin is also not on the catalogue page shown above. It sounds good, but is not really loud, so I think it is no top model...
    Mandolins: 1920s (?) Meinel & Herold Bowlback, 2006 Furch "Redwood MA-1" A5

    Octaves: 2004 Fender FMO-66 Flat-Top, 2015 A. Karperien 5 String Electric

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    I heard from my Austrian friend and he says this which sort of clears up some confusion:

    You posted the right pics from a M&H catalogue.
    This company was a maker, no doubt, they sold their musical instruments by mail order to private sellers, too.
    The didn't have own shops but contracts with other shops.
    By the way, M&H was one of very less surviving companies after WW2
    I have a feeling he meant that they were a retailer but contracted with outside shops to make instruments to their specs.
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  23. #17

    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Giannini refers to Brazilian Rosewood as Jacaranda in their old catalogs: http://www.giannini.com.br/catalogos-antigos/

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    I always thought that jacarandá was directly translated as rosewood, at least for instruments or furniture.
    The ad also refers to Palisander, too, Jim, which I also took as a euro-name for rosewood. Odd that they would use both terms.

    Mick
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    You posted the right pics from a M&H catalogue.
    This company was a maker, no doubt, they sold their musical instruments by mail order to private sellers, too.
    The didn't have own shops but contracts with other shops.
    By the way, M&H was one of very less surviving companies after WW2
    It's important to understand the difference in meaning of the word 'shop' in European English. In Europe 'shop' means what Americans call a 'store'. I don't know whether Jim Garber's Austrian friend speaks European or American English, but what I think he is saying is, 'This company was a maker, no doubt . . . They didn't have their own stores but contracts with other stores.'

    According to this website 'This old established instrument maker and retailer was closed in 1973 by order of the “Democratic Government”!' [i.e. the communist E. German government].

    I have bought, refurbished and sold on quite a few Meinel & Herold mandolins, mandriolas and Waldzithers. I have always found them to be sound, well-made instruments which didn't need a lot of work. Good looking, nice sounding, but not in same class as Gibson, of course. I wouldn't date your bowlback earlier than the 1930's. Before that, it would have had more MoP and not so much plastic.

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    BTW the strings that are on it look much too heavy for this kind of mandolin. You should give it an ultra-light set, 9-32 or thereabouts.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    My Austrian friend wanted me to correct the info he said.

    "They did have their own factory without any doubt. One of the biggest and one of very few that still existed after WW2."
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    I have a Adolf Meinel .. But not the Harold part.. any one want to guess what year? I have No clue.. the case looks 1920s ish.

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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    My Austrian friend wanted me to correct the info he said.

    "They did have their own factory without any doubt. One of the biggest and one of very few that still existed after WW2."
    Anonymous Austrian Freund needs to come up with some more solid information and links to company history and what they produced in order to be useful in this conversation.

    Ongoing discussion over at a squeeze box site (I cheat my mando friends with) has M&H retailing their melodeons, etc. from a range of makers. That they might have made some things, and not others, as Mike suggest, makes a lot more sense given their range of product pushed.

    Whether they made mandolins or guitars themselves seems to me still an open question. Sounds like they did have some history in the violin making biz.

    Mick
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Quote Originally Posted by brunello97 View Post
    Anonymous Austrian Freund needs to come up with some more solid information and links to company history and what they produced in order to be useful in this conversation.

    Ongoing discussion over at a squeeze box site (I cheat my mando friends with) has M&H retailing their melodeons, etc. from a range of makers. That they might have made some things, and not others, as Mike suggest, makes a lot more sense given their range of product pushed.

    Whether they made mandolins or guitars themselves seems to me still an open question. Sounds like they did have some history in the violin making biz.

    Mick
    Christian Steinbrecher (the mystery man - I just didn't want to bother him if he did not want to be bothered) has a large collection of old catalogs from European companies and has been researching them for some time. If he wants to post here he can and has over the years. He did not tell my how he knows this.

    We are never quite sure why these companies chose to build in-house or outsource even today and that goes for our beloved American companies as well. OTOH If we find evidence of large spacious factory-like buildings on the property of company sites we can assume they made some of their products there. You do remember the conundrum of Luigi Ricca having 200 employees and then we discovered that he started to manufacture pianos later after the mandolins.
    Last edited by Jim Garber; Sep-12-2018 at 10:27am.
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  34. #25
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    Default Re: So what is Meinel & Herold?

    Off-topic, but this seems like a good place to say it:

    I'm continually amazed at the depth of knowledge on the Cafe, and how readily & easily its shared. Thanks, all!
    (Or maybe not-so-good, as the thread is fro 2018. Duuh!)
    - Ed

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