anodize or powder coat talipiece (?)

[dan in va]

Roger, how is doing business with the shops that are "Changing pawn forever"?

[Roger Moss]

Roger, how is doing business with the shops that are "Changing pawn forever"?

You mean "Changimg Pawn For Good"? They're alright. One of their competitors, though, I wouldn't waste my water on if their hearts were on fire.

[dan in va]

Yep, that's it. i met Toby once and he seems like a pretty sharp, nice fellow.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Ray - Driving is one thing that i really wish i'd taken up. However,i never really had the chance, or the cash for driving lessons. Even back in the old MSG days,my family were pretty poor,& i was handing over most of my wages to keep us afloat,that was while my peers were keeping their wages,taking driving lessons & buying cars. I bought a banjo !. I did start taking driving lessons twice - both times frought with problems - not mine i hasten to add.

However,i'm a car & bike enthusiast - i love good design. If i was to choose a car,i'd go for one of these - an Alvis TE 21 MkII,
Ivan

[Ray(T)]

That looks like quite a posh garage!

You're probably all the richer for never having owned a car, Ivan. I went to the 70th birthday party of a (now deceased) friend of mine a few years ago and his son came up with a list containing each of the 35 cars he had owned. I hate to think how much he had spent on them - he wasn't the sort to buy one used used and the only second hand ones I remember him driving were a Mercedes sports car and and "Inspector Morse" style Jaguar.

[Ivan Kelsall]

The biggest downside to not driving,has been my inability to get to some of our UK Bluegrass festivals. My wife has a car,but she's not my chauffer,& asking her (expecting her ?) to drive me all over the place isn't something i'd ask her to do,although she used to drive us down to the old Ironbridge festival,one that we both enjoyed, & one that was well worth the trip,
Ivan

[OneChordTrick]

Hi Ray - Driving is one thing that i really wish i'd taken up. However,i never really had the chance, or the cash for driving lessons. Even back in the old MSG days,my family were pretty poor,& i was handing over most of my wages to keep us afloat,that was while my peers were keeping their wages,taking driving lessons & buying cars. I bought a banjo !. I did start taking driving lessons twice - both times frought with problems - not mine i hasten to add.

However,i'm a car & bike enthusiast - i love good design. If i was to choose a car,i'd go for one of these - an Alvis TE 21 MkII,
Ivan

I had one of those as a student* or at least a variant of it.

*OK technically it belonged to my then girlfriend's father, I had to collect it from where he bought it and deliver it to Oslo for him so was it's guardian for a few weeks. Great looking car but very heavy to drive I seem to recall.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I'd expect that the heaviness in the steering was because back then,there was no power assisted steering. That was why many cars of that era had large diameter steering wheels so you could get some torque on them. Steering wheels these days,even on really huge cars,are half the diameter,
Ivan

[OneChordTrick]

Yes, the lack of power steering was definitely a factor. We won't mention that for a lot of the time I also had at least six passengers or that the brakes were the first job done when I delivered the car to its owner!

[dhergert]

You can buy a home/hobbyist powder coat kit from various retailers for under $100(US), but you'll need an air compressor of some sort, a toaster oven or some other small powder coat dedicated non-flame oven and a safe (flame-free, well ventilated) area to do the work.

It would probably be an interesting project if you have the interest, time and money. If you're that interested in powder coat you could buy an inexpensive tailpiece and do the work yourself, and wait for the gold plating to be ready for your mandolin's real tailpiece.

My newly purchased 1930s Alcoa double bass is powder-coated an aluminum color and after using it for about 5 months I think I prefer it powder coated as opposed to raw polished aluminum or painted. The finish is extremely durable, and the thick powder coat tends to help reduce the metallic sound of the bass.

I don't know if that kind of tone difference would apply to something as small as a tailpiece, but it's possible.

[dan in va]

Great story. So, how big is a bass-sized toaster oven?

[pops1]

Great story. So, how big is a bass-sized toaster oven?

Why not use the oven that baked the bread so you can toast it in a bass sized toaster oven.

[dhergert]

Great story. So, how big is a bass-sized toaster oven?

Actually the bass was powder coated professionally with a walk-in (and hopefully walk-out) oven. They commonly do larger car parts, etc., so they don't use the home/hobbyist kit.

Fwiw, the powder coat has to be at 400F to melt, and there are poisonous gasses and polymers released that adhere to the oven when the powder coat melts, which is why it's important to have a powder coat dedicated toaster oven -- unless you want to powder coat your toast to preserve it forever.

[Roger Moss]

Fwiw, the powder coat has to be at 400F to melt, and there are poisonous gasses and polymers released that adhere to the oven when the powder coat melts, which is why it's important to have a powder coat dedicated toaster oven -- unless you want to powder coat your toast to preserve it forever.

Since I assume that goes both ways, only use the toaster oven again if your intent is to powder coat your pop tarts.

[TonyP]

I started out with one the cheap Eastman powdercoat guns. While it did the job, not until I finally could afford a pro rig that was $900+ did I realize the difference. The cheap gun because of the power supply wasted probably 40% of the powder. And the pro gun has a variable power supply that helps it break the Faraday effect of close spaced parts/sections that make the attraction of the powder not work. So it makes thin spots and bare spots. Also the pro gun puts on a much smoother and uniform finish. Also the amount of waste is much less. I tried to recycle the unused powder but I don't have a clean room and there is just too much contamination. You can tell those who try to recycle, the finish is not good.

Powdercoat is just like any other process like plating or paint, it's all about your prep. It has to be insanely clean and like paint, temp and humidity are a major factor. I made my own powdercoat booth because nobody makes one like I needed and while you can do it without a booth you run the risk of picking up dust out of the air and powdercoat goes everywhere making a mess out of your shop. And causes your future powdercoat to be a mess. All of this I learned over the 10yrs or so of doing this. There is a big difference in the different powders too. Each one has different curing times and temps. The one I'm using right now cures in 10min @ 350f.

[dhergert]

Yup... Thank you for more details about this.

This is the reason I'm glad my bass was powder coated by a pro. As you've described, like any other finish work, it's actually a hard job to do well, and experience pays off.

[TonyP]

As you've described, like any other finish work, it's actually a hard job to do well, and experience pays off.

You should price those ovens large enough to do something like your bass! Not to mention the bill to fire that thing up as the bigger the stove the longer you have to let it preheat until it thoroughly heat soaks the inside to heat evenly. I'm lucky I got an old MagicChef electric stove out of a remodel on CL for $25. Works perfect for what I do. Being a cheapskate can be a blessing and a curse.

[Timbofood]

Ivan,
I would really love to cruise onto a bluegrass festival in that Alvis! They are virtually unheard of over here, unless you are around real anglophilic car nuts!

[mtucker]

Ivan,
I would really love to cruise onto a bluegrass festival in that Alvis! They are virtually unheard of over here

Old British cars are some of my favorite, they have such style and class. On this side of the pond we make hotrods out of them and convert them to V8 Chevy's. Course, we put bigger chevy's in older chevy's too!

This one may be more BG appropriate although, i could flip the other way

BTW: at one time anodizing was really popular in the business of hotrods. Now we have gold chrome and black chrome and all kinds of interesting and durable powder processes and products that we just don't see anodizing much any more.

[mandroid]

Thing is, the surface cannot be touched , any skin oil ruins the smooth surface distribution,

so it goes from sandblasting bare metal, to the powder application ,

never handling it but by the hanger used in the previous step.

A friend does Powder coat, professionally, in town,

he did my 2 early round wire tone guards.

Heating the large oven was the expensive part, so I just left my pieces until he had a bigger job

of the same color, and so my cost was very minimal ..






..

[CarlM]

I would really love to cruise onto a bluegrass festival in that Alvis! They are virtually unheard of over here, unless you are around real anglophilic car nuts!

My father spent several years rebuilding a 1937 Alvis from the ground up for a guy. I am not sure where it is today.

[TonyP]

Heating the large oven was the expensive part, so I just left my pieces until he had a bigger job

of the same color, and so my cost was very minimal ..

..

Sorry Bob, but I take issue with that statement. That is NOT the expensive part. That totally disregards the amount of labor to prep, the cost of the shop, thousands of $$$ for the gun,spray booth, special oven, bead blaster, respirators etc. The cheapest part is the small amount of actual powder it took. That isn't to say you can't do it on a shoestring but don't expect a pro job the first time.

[dan in va]

My apoligies for "dipping" into the current drift of the thread. But i'll digress a bit to report that Mike has now gotten the gold plating process going on the tailpiece, and i'll be taking the advice of many to order one. The only catch is that my excellent luthier shifted gears and got a nickel set of Rubners with ivoroid buttons when i gave up the gold TP idea. Since it was my request, i'll gladly buy it and keep it for the future or maybe offer it up in the classifieds. But i'm not counting any chickens, as i don't have this little gem in hand just yet. i just hope this back and forth action doesn't make my luthier crazy.

Okay, back to wherever the thread was going...cars, trucks, wheels, motorcycles, basses...it's all good on the cafe.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Hi Dan - Could your luthier exchange the Nickel Rubners for Gold plated ones ?. It seems a shame to go to the trouble of getting the t/piece Gold plated & not to be able to use it. Life's very quirky like that at times.

From mtucker - "...we just don't see anodizing much any more. " Ordinary anodic plating is pretty soft & not very durable,that why in industry there's a 'hard' anodising process.

Re.Hard Anodising :-
" Sealed items are even more corrosion resistant. The outer coating is also extremely hard, typically much harder than the original metal. In many cases, a thick hard anodized coating can be as hard as tool steel. The oxide layer is part of the metal, it won't peel off and the surface finish will increase.''
Ivan

[mandroid]

Mavic, a French Bicycle wheel rim maker offers a CD treatment on some of them,
short for their term for hard anodizing , they have a distinctive dark grey surface.