Does an oval hole have advantages?

[emmadragon]

At the risk of starting a fevered discussion, does anyone have any thoughts on how either an oval hole or f holes are better in terms of sound quality? I think I might be an early convert to MAS, and would like to know what people think.

If you were buying a new mandolin, with a budget of let's say around $1000, where would you start? In my defence, my teacher has already said I might want to consider upgrading!

My apologies if this has already been asked, please direct me to the right threads...

Many thanks, Emma.

[Dacnis]

Hi Emma -- I've been playing mando for about a year and have had the opportunity to play several oval-holes myself and listen to several f-holes played by my teachers and other local people. Each type can sound great. Everyone will tell you that the oval/round holes have more sustain and are popular for old-time and Celtic, while f-holes have better projection to be heard in Bluegrass, especially for chop chords.

A couple of days ago I met a really good player who had a mando that sounded gorgeous. When I asked him what brand it was, he didn't even know -- he had to look at the headstock! To an extent, the player is more important than the mando.

If you are interested in oval holes, you might want to listen to some pancake models, because you can get an excellent pancake within your budget. A couple of months ago I got a Sawchyn Beavertail pancake model and it's cured my MAS at least for a while.

[mandolin tony]

sound wise to me it is just a different flavor of sound. if it were me I think I would buy a Kentucky KM-900 A style mandolin from the mandolin store now & down the road I would get an Eastman oval hole mandolin. but that's just me.

[Pittsburgh Bill]

People with a better ear than myself profess that f holes project better than oval holes. Perhaps this is the reason I mostly play oval.hole Mandolas at home and play f hole mandolins when playing out with other people.

[sunburst]

...does anyone have any thoughts on how either an oval hole or f holes are better in terms of sound quality?...

Yes, people have thoughts on that. Here's the thing: for those who prefer the sound of f-holes, f-hole mandolins are better. For people who prefer the sound of oval hole, oval holes are better. It's that simple, some people prefer one, some people prefer the other.
Arguments can be made as to what types of music each is better suited, but there are no hard and fast rules. It is true that f-hole mandolins, in general, "project" more. Most of that is their ability to be heard over other instruments in an ensemble, and it becomes particularly apparent in Bluegrass music where the mandolin must 'compete' with fiddles, banjos, and other loud instruments. Oval hole mandolins have been used in Bluegrass, f-hole mandolins have been used in other situations where oval holes are often said to be better suited. Once again, there are no hard and fast rules.
There is a strong Old-Time music community in the area of Virginia where I lived before moving to Kentucky. Many will say that an oval hole mandolin is better suited to Old-Time, and some will even say that f-holes are inappropriate for Old-Time. I've sold 3 or 4 f-hole mandolins to folks who play Old-Time music primarily or exclusively. It started when a member of an Old-Time band needed to be heard better and was looking for a mandolin that 'cut through' or 'projected' better. She was playing a very nice old Gibson F-4, but now she plays an f-hole mandolin.

Now for my opinion.
I lean toward getting f-holes. If you get a mandolin worthy of keeping for a while, you might end up using it in situations where the 'projection' of f-holes is needed. I feel like an f-hole mandolin can be used in any musical situation, I feel like it can do everything an oval hole can do with the bonus of competing better with other instruments. Ideally, get one of each when you can afford them!

[Jon Hall]

Emma, I was asking the same question twenty years a go and I bought an A model with "f" holes. I never regretted my choice. For the music I've played for the past twenty years, it was the most versatile. Since then, I have bought an oval hole A style and another f hole A model.

[yankees1]

More sustain with an oval and sound projection to MY EARS ! Ears vary !

[UsuallyPickin]

Neither better or worse just different ….. tone mostly … sustain maybe a little but it will depend on the instrument and player … loudness definitely depends on the player and strings ….. cost F's are higher than A's because of the added hand work and popularity ... flat top instruments are different yet …. go play them until you find one you LOVE and then buy it ….. Take a look at the Kentucky and Eastman lines of mandolin . They are the best bargains at the 1,000.00$ level. Go with an A model and you will get a higher quality instrument for your money. Watch the classifieds here in and on Reverb for a good used instrument. If you become a serious mandolinist in three or four years you may want to step up into the 5,000.00$ range of instruments …. Enjoy the journey,, R/

[Mark Gunter]

I feel like an f-hole mandolin can be used in any musical situation, I feel like it can do everything an oval hole can do with the bonus of competing better with other instruments. Ideally, get one of each when you can afford them!

An example would be Simon Mayor, UK-based mandolin virtuoso, who prefers A model f-holes mandolin for everything, including classical situations where oval-hole neapolitan style mandolins are the norm! https://mandolin.co.uk/about/

I've heard Simon in interviews explain how he just prefers the sound of them, and I don't hear anyone arguing that his tone does any injustice to the classical playing he's done, or to the Celtic traditional stuff he does.

I think John Hamlet's advice is sound. Personally, I now have two f-hole types that I enjoy, but hope to add a good oval hole eventually. Not that I feel any special need for one, I just want a good one someday for variety.

[Dogrich]

I am relatively new to this myself. I was somewhat in the same boat as you a year ago. From what I have read on here and other forums, the general consensus is that f-holes project better (throw their sound). They also tend to have less sustain (while the f-holes have a more percussive "chop" desired in bluegrass). These points are generalizations, because you will always have the outlier that will tell you their oval hole chops better that f-holes they have experienced or that a particular f-hole has better sustain than ovals they have experienced. Beyond the generalizations, you also need to look at (listen to) the individual instrument. You can take two of the same model off a wall, and they can sound different (sustain/volume/chop/string-to-string clarity). The best thing you can do is to try to find a place where you can play a bunch of different mandolins to see what speaks to YOU. Aesthetics is a real important factor, too. If you absolutely love the look of an F style mandolin w/ f-holes, no A or oval will do. Find what you see as beautiful, make sure the sound is appealing to you, and buy it!

I love the look and sound of oval hole mandolins. If you like the look and sound of the oval holes, as mentioned above, there are some very high quality pancake ovals that are well within your budget. You could go w/ a classic Flatiron or a new Redline. Crystal Forest and Sawchyn also make very nice, new, pancake style mandolins that can be found sub $1k.

The most important thing is to find what looks and sounds best to you...

Good luck in your search, and enjoy the process!

[emmadragon]

That's really great, thank you all so much. I'm leaning towards wanting to play rock more than anything else, so I think the projection would be a real benefit there. I'll probably wait a bit before jumping in to it (gotta save up, for one thing!), but I'll definitely look at trying the f-hole once I won't embarrass myself in a music shop. My existing mandolin is an oval, but I've no strong feelings one way or the other.

[Seter]

I made this comparative video awhile ago, though it's comparing F hole archtop with flattop oval hole and bowlback oval hole.

[Eric F.]

I prefer oval holes when I'm playing my oval hole and I prefer f holes when I'm playing my f hole.

[Jim Garber]

I have been olaying mandolin for 40+ years. I agree with Mr. Hamlett above that both styles are good and you can play anything on either. In addition, i would also include other styles like pancakes, flatbacks and even bowlbacks to play whatever you want.

My two favorites among my pile are my Brentrup A4C (oval) and '83 Flatiron A5-2 (f-holes).They are very different in tone and projection but they do the trick. And yes, I play lots of genres except maybe bluegrass: old time, Italian, classical, swing, choro, etc.

My advice, Emma, is to play as many mandolins as you can before settling on one to upgrade. BTW what mandolin are you playing right now?

[emmadragon]

Just as an aside, does the scroll-y bit do anything on those models where there is one, or is it just a decorative touch?

Oh, mine is an oval hole A-type, an Amada, manufactured by Strunal in the Czech Republic. (I had to look inside it for that, I'd forgotten.) It is a nice starter instrument, my local music shop tells me, a bit better quality than some of the oriental build instruments they tend to see.

[darrylicshon]

I have several of both oval and f hole , and I also have a and f shape ones of both. I enjoy all , they all have their own sound, as said above I enjoy the one I'm playing at the time. It's nice to be able to switch. Seems like they all project well, but some of my f holes are louder

[Gary Leonard]

Just as an aside, does the scroll-y bit do anything on those models where there is one, or is it just a decorative touch?

Yes, the scroll-y bit has an important role in adding several hundred to a thousand dollars to the purchase price over a comparable A model!


I prefer the oval hole sound, it just fits the types of music I play, celtic, old time and choro.

[emmadragon]

I figured the scroll-y thing might be that important named part, the 'price elevator', but wasn't sure.

[colorado_al]

Welcome Emma!
Whichever way you go, you don't need to spend $1000 to get a good upgrade. From what I've seen online, it looks like your mandolin is likely a flattop of typical Eastern European design from the 1980s. You could go with a Kentucky KM-250 (F-hole) or KM-270 (oval-hole) and have a significant step up in quality.
If you let us know where you are located, it might help in making a recommendation.
Also, you can post a picture of your current mandolin so that we know what you're using now.
Best,
Al

Is your current one like this:


Or is it more like this?

[Mark Wilson]

One advantage maybe is the player gets to hear a bit more of the sound coming from the oval hole. With the ff holes others get more of the sound. (imo) My mandolin (ff holes) sounds louder to me when I listen to someone else play it

[Br1ck]

Besides advising you that you need at least one of each, and at least one scrolly thing just because, there are pretty significant differences within both styles.

I have been very happy with my Silverangel for the fiddle tunes and general playing around the house, and you can find them used for less money than most. The warm resonant tone skews toward what many would like in an oval, but it is still an f hole that can project well. That said, I'm building an f style that should be brighter and will scratch my scroll itch.

You are already on the right track by taking lessons. You can get a rather nice used A style f hole for $1200 or so up. Watch the classifieds here for a while to get an idea of what's out there, then search the threads for info on them. It's a real education.

I was talking to a friend about Collings mandolins being too bright. He agreed, then pointed out how well they cut through in a group. There is no one do it all instrument out there that I've played.

[Seter]

If you already have an oval hole, albeit perhaps a cheaper one, I vote for getting an F hole just to broaden the sounds you have available.

[Charles E.]

Something like this might be right your alley.......

https://www.mandolincafe.com/ads/127166#127166

NFI

[colorado_al]

If you're in the USA, I'd check out this Kentucky KM-252 with case for $500
https://themandolinstore.com/product...mandolin-case/
It will come setup well from the Mandolin Store.

From the phrasing of your initial question, I'm guessing that you are in the UK.
If that is the case, I'd contact Trevor at TAMCO and see if he can set you up with an Eastman MD305 (£529) or MD505 (£799) depending on your budget
http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/...andolins-.html

They are superb mandolins and the difference between the two are a satin or gloss finish and better tuning machines on the 505

Or if you do want the equivalent Oval hole model, the MD304 or MD504.
If you're going to play traditional Irish music, you might lean towards the oval hole. Or a higher quality flattop instrument.

[Scott Rucker]

As others have said most of what I think better than I can, so I will spare you most of it. I will add that I think that f hole mandolins are generally more versatile (I'm limiting this to carved back and top instruments) in terms of both sound qualities and social acceptance (in the US). I own and play both styles. If I had to have only one, I'd choose an f hole simply because the power is there when needed. I can play more lightly on my F5 or A5 but I can't get more juice out of my oval hole ones when I can't be heard in the din. With that said, I still play my oval hole mandolins about as much as the f hole ones.