Advice on Shellac?

[Rdeane]

I just got my IV A-style kit and am assembling supplies. I plan to use hot hide glue. My question is: I bought a can of Zinsser shellac at Lowes and then found references to the need for de-waxed shellac. I ordered some but would like to know can I use both?

Is the non de-waxed shellac compatible in any way with the de-waxed?

What happens if you use non de-waxed shellac?

[HoGo]

If you plan to use it as top coat (french polish) nothing will happen. It will have slightly different feel and lustre. And perhaps a bit softer than dewaxed. If you want to use it as a base for another coating (other than shellac) you may have problems with adhesion.

[rcc56]

Zinsser shellac is more suitable for interior house trim than for instrument work.

I recommend getting some shellac flakes from International Violin [their price is good], a bottle of pure grain alcohol from the liquor store, and some light mineral oil; and learn the joys of building a French polished shellac finish.

The tutorial on the LMI website is reasonably good.

[Stephen Perry]

Standard spirit varnish - thousands of recipes - works better than straight shellac. I'd like to say dissolving flakes gives me better results than using freshish Zinser, but I can't tell the difference once it's mixed with other goodies!

[4ForAll]

Check out Frank Ford’s write up

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...r/zinsser.html

[rcc56]

Note that the product in the Frank Ford review [which looks very interesting] is not the same product that will be on the shelf at most hardware stores. He specifies the "Seal Coat Universal Sanding Sealer," 100% wax-free formula.

The Zinsser shellac products that Lowe's lists on their website is not the stuff that Frank Ford gives a positive review. He advises us not to use the Bull's Eye "Traditional Finish and Sealer" that Lowe's carries.

Read your labels carefully before you buy.

[Drew Streip]

I found the Zinsser Seal Coat at my local Ace Hardware. After some practice boards to learn the ropes of French polishing, I refinished the top of an end table to pleasant results.

I've found that it behaves like the Seal-Lac sold by LMI, which is also marketed as a 2-lb cut of dewaxed shellac.

I have also used the standard, waxed Zinsser shellac in both clear and amber for small hobby projects. As HoGo said, it has a slightly different feel during application, and it dries a little differently. As the name implies, "waxier" would be the best descriptor.

However you proceed with finishing, practice first to make sure you can coat the instrument evenly around edges, 90-degree corners, soundholes, etc. Application is more than half the battle!

[Jim Adwell]

Perhaps Frank had an old can of the Zinsser Traditional Finish and Sealer (or the product has gotten better since 2001), because I've used it for various things in past few years, both as an undercoat for other finishes, and as a finish, and it works just fine, as long as it's not too old, which is the problem with buying premixed shellac. It's a lot safer to buy quality flakes and mix your own as you need it.

[HoGo]

I found out that most likely the problem with life of dissolved shellac is those few % of water in the mix. Since I started using extremely high percentage ethanol (99.7%) I ve had flakes dissolved for more than two years in bottle and they still work perfectly. I strongly recommend such ethanol even over everclear. (I still have a bottle of very expensive pharmacy grade ethanol that I used to use before...)
The ethanol that I'm using is sold as biofuel for stackless indoor fireplaces (and it's cheap as its production is suported by EU). The brand I found is completely free of water and just tiny amount of denaturant added (MEK, no methanol). Perhaps you can find something similar in US.

[Tavy]

Yep, let's hear it for bio-ethanol, great stuff for french polishing!
+1 on getting some decent dewaxed flake as well, throw in a bit of sandarac and you'll have a great durable finish.

[thistle3585]

I have used Zinnsser Amber Shellac on 80+ instruments. I really like the color it gives the wood especially koa and other figured woods. I have had two problems with the lacquer cracking and both times were a result of me using an old, expired can of shellac. Other than those two times, I have never had a problem with it as a sealer coat. I have also used it under Tru-oil. You can not use it with water based or oil based polyurethanes.

[Rdeane]

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I decided to go with unwaxed shellac flakes and look forward to learning the finishing process. I really value this forum for the opportunity to learn from many others who have a wealth of information and advice for someone like me who needs it!

[Rick Lindstrom]

Yep, let's hear it for bio-ethanol, great stuff for french polishing!
+1 on getting some decent dewaxed flake as well, throw in a bit of sandarac and you'll have a great durable finish.

Anyone know where to buy bio-ethanol in small quantities?

[HoGo]

Anyone know where to buy bio-ethanol in small quantities?

I'm buying directly from local producer (distillery). I pay +-2 EURO per 1liter bottle. I'm in EU so US situation may be slightly different.
Check stores that sell ventless fireplaces in your neighborhood, they will have the fuel but may cost twice as much. Check MSDS for ethanol contents (you want one with 97+% ethanol, preferrably over 99% and no perfume added or such) You can find it on amazon but they ususally sell only in 6-12 packs...

[Rick Lindstrom]

Thanks Adrian- it'll probably be difficult to find it in the US. As usual with such things your part of the world is ahead of the curve. LOL

[O. Apitius]

Here in Ontario, Canada I use a very pure (99.9% or better) ethyl alcohol from a producer/supplier called Commercial Alcohols. There's a fair bit of government red tape involved but it is the absolute best you can get for French polishing. I believe that they have U.S. operations as well under the name Greenfield.
I buy it in a 12 X 500ml case. Here's a link to their products. The stuff I buy is in the top row. Scroll sideways to see the 12 X 500ml quantity option. http://www.comalc.com/products/
Because it is expensive and time consuming to get, I use cheaper alcohols for cleaning and such but because it is the best product for FP and it is virtually non-toxic with moderate exposure, it is my favorite for French polishing.

Goudey's Manufacturing in Toronto also makes a very good denatured alcohol for around $40 a gallon that is my second choice.

[Br1ck]

I finished my build with a fairly new product I got from LMI called Royal Lac. Not cheap, but easy to use and looks like shellac, because it basically is. Easy to work with. French polishing went very well.

[j. condino]

https://www.shellacshack.com/