Copyright to Public Domain, Big Event Imminent ...

[Mark Gunter]

Jan 1, 2019 ... the date soon coming will mark the first time in 20 years that intellectual property, works of art, fiction, music, etc., will enter the public domain.

About 20 years ago, the laws were changed to lengthen the amount of time before a copyrighted work can pass into the public domain. So, for this entire new millennium thus far, no works have passed into the public domain. That changes in a couple weeks - works published in 1923 will be passing into the public domain.

We can blame Mickey Mouse for the long wait. In 1998, Disney was one of the loudest in a choir of corporate voices advocating for longer copyright protections. At the time, all works published before January 1, 1978, were entitled to copyright protection for 75 years; all author’s works published on or after that date were under copyright for the lifetime of the creator, plus 50 years. Steamboat Willie, featuring Mickey Mouse’s first appearance on screen, in 1928, was set to enter the public domain in 2004. At the urging of Disney and others, Congress passed the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, named for the late singer, songwriter and California representative, adding 20 years to the copyright term. Mickey would be protected until 2024—and no copyrighted work would enter the public domain again until 2019, creating a bizarre 20-year hiatus between the release of works from 1922 and those from 1923.

More from the Smithsonian on this: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-...main-180971016

[MikeZito]

Over the past 25 years I have written and published (so far) about 80 songs . . . all of which (as Jethro Burns would say); 'I have had little or no success with.'

By the time the world rolls into the 23rd century, I am pretty sure that my great-grandchildren won't know and/or care about any of the songs that I have written . . . so, let the public have at them.

[mandroid]

Our here BMI scouts went thru town warning businesses about the things they can do
if you use copyright songs without paying their licence fee..

including the 'Independent Contractors' dancing at the pole bar..

and so decree for open mic is only originals or public domain ,

and venue owners tend to not know what has gone into public domain,
so are leery of anything familiar ..





...

[HonketyHank]

So, if I copyright Waldo's and my new version of "Midnight-Clear", my royalties will cease when I am 167 years old. Bummer. What will I live on after that?

[Mandobart]

Copyright and publisher's royalties are different things. All this means is songs published in 1923 in America or earlier move into public domain. If you intend to play anything published later (i.e., anything written by Bill Monroe) the venue you play at had better be paying their ASCAP, BMI and SESAC licensing fees. The farmers market I play at is attempting to dodge these fees by insisting anything I play be either my own original work or public domain.

[MikeZito]

this means is songs published in 1923 in America or earlier move into public domain. If you intend to play anything published later . . . the venue you play at had better be paying their ASCAP, BMI and SESAC licensing fees.

If you think about it - here is the weird part; (I fully realize that in reality this is a rhetorical question with a very complex answer):

I am a BMI registered writer, and I have a BMI registered publishing company. All of my songs were written after 1923. So, if I play my own songs in public, shouldn't I get paid for them? After all, it is a 'public performance' of a song that I have written - which (if you think about it) is really not much different than one of my records being played on the radio.

In short - if on Tuesday night some guy sings one of my songs at a local bar, I should get paid for it . . . but if I sing that exact same song, at the exact same bar, on Wednesday night - I don't get paid.

It's no wonder musicians starve . . . . .

[Mandobart]

If you think about it - here is the weird part; (I fully realize that in reality this is a rhetorical question with a very complex answer):

I am a BMI registered writer, and I have a BMI registered publishing company. All of my songs were written after 1923. So, if I play my own songs in public, shouldn't I get paid for them? After all, it is a 'public performance' of a song that I have written - which (if you think about it) is really not much different than one of my records being played on the radio.

In short - if on Tuesday night some guy sings one of my songs at a local bar, I should get paid for it . . . but if I sing that exact same song, at the exact same bar, on Wednesday night - I don't get paid.

It's no wonder musicians starve . . . . .

I think this is the difference Mike - radio stations supply their playlists to the PRO's. They know who to give royalties to. Streaming services like Pandora and Spotify also track who they play. Most bars, restaurants, coffee shops and festivals don't track every song played so you don't get paid if I sing one of your songs at a local bar. What is funny is if you play your BMI registered songs in a venue that doesn't pay licensing fees, BMI will probably shut them down, actually costing you as you've lost another venue to play in.

[pops1]

If you think about it - here is the weird part; (I fully realize that in reality this is a rhetorical question with a very complex answer):

I am a BMI registered writer, and I have a BMI registered publishing company. All of my songs were written after 1923. So, if I play my own songs in public, shouldn't I get paid for them? After all, it is a 'public performance' of a song that I have written - which (if you think about it) is really not much different than one of my records being played on the radio.

In short - if on Tuesday night some guy sings one of my songs at a local bar, I should get paid for it . . . but if I sing that exact same song, at the exact same bar, on Wednesday night - I don't get paid.

It's no wonder musicians starve . . . . .

I believe you can request to be paid for your copyrighted material, but the venue had better be paying the fees. I have long fought for the fairness of paying copyright fees, and been told by ASCAP that to do it correctly would be cost prohibitive. I told them they do not have a viable business.

[gspiess]

I always thought that A listers got two types of royalties: writing and performance.

[MikeZito]

I believe you can request to be paid for your copyrighted material, but the venue had better be paying the fees. I have long fought for the fairness of paying copyright fees, and been told by ASCAP that to do it correctly would be cost prohibitive. I told them they do not have a viable business.

Back in 1991 I co-wrote and published both the opening and closing themes for a popular local weekly old-time country music radio show. Those themes were played, and reported to BMI, every week for nearly 20 years - and we never saw a penny. One day when I was speaking to BMI about an unrelated matter, I asked about payments for those two songs. Essentially I was told that songs with such little airplay got 'eaten up in administrative costs'. Until Eric Clapton or Rhonda Vincent has a hit with one of my songs (you will notice I am not holding my breath on that one) I decided never bothered to inquire about any of my songs again.

[dang]

I believe you can request to be paid for your copyrighted material, but the venue had better be paying the fees. I have long fought for the fairness of paying copyright fees, and been told by ASCAP that to do it correctly would be cost prohibitive. I told them they do not have a viable business.

It seems like with modern technology, and the ability to identify songs in an app, the technology should catch up on this one… ???

[Teak]

I think this is the difference Mike - radio stations supply their playlists to the PRO's. They know who to give royalties to. Streaming services like Pandora and Spotify also track who they play. Most bars, restaurants, coffee shops and festivals don't track every song played so you don't get paid if I sing one of your songs at a local bar. What is funny is if you play your BMI registered songs in a venue that doesn't pay licensing fees, BMI will probably shut them down, actually costing you as you've lost another venue to play in.

The tracking is what I have a question about. Has any bar, restaurant, coffee shop, band, or other challenged the publishers by requiring the publishers to track which songs being played are theirs and thus due for compensation? You know, have the publishers hire people to go sit in every establishment and write down the songs from their libraries being played? (That would add to their administrative costs, eh?)

This requirement for an establishment to pay an annual fee when it is unknown if one of their songs or tunes will ever get played seems to be the onerous issue.

Do libraries pay an annual fee to publishers lest someone should check out a book and read it during any given year?

[Teak]

Maybe we should start a thread in which we collect songs or tunes for which we know have gone off copyright. Here are a few of which I play that no longer have copyright.

St. Louis Blues (1914)
Margie (1920)
St. James' Infirmary (under dispute)

I found an interesting blog post by Robert W. Harwood about how the intent of copyright changed from its original intent to its current intent.

https://iwentdowntostjamesinfirmary....infirmary.html

And I quote Robert W. Harwood here:

Copyright was originally - and we're talking 18th and 19th century in the U.S. - intended as a way of limiting a person's ability to profit from something he or she created. It was recognized that everything - from a painting to a spinning wheel - was based on something that preceded it, that nothing is original, and so ultimately belongs to our commonality. In other words, copyright ensured that the item returned, within a reasonable amount of time, into the public stream; in this way others (the public in general) could benefit from it and incorporate it into their own explorations, without fear of repercussions. And thereby to help us all progress.

The notion of copyright changed as corporations became more influential in legal processes, and it segued into a means of preventing commodities or ideas from becoming public property - they would probably refer to it as protection of investment. So, in effect, the notion of copyright did an about-face. And that might be why something about current copyright law has a peculiar, and not attractive, smell.

One thing it does, this contemporary interpretation of ownership, is undermine common courtesy. We are not, in this legal notion, participating in a mutual undertaking (that is, living life with concern for each other) but are instead isolated from each other in a kind of pecuniary or egoistic selfishness.

[dhergert]

Our here BMI scouts went thru town warning businesses about the things they can do
if you use copyright songs without paying their licence fee...

Yes, although usually Pro company scouts "forget" to mention to the venues that they have a legal right to pay monthly or quarterly per-customer instead of paying a lump sum yearly. The Pro companies hate that level of bookkeeping.

That minor detail exclusion is why many live music venues are disappearing from the scene.

[pops1]

I asked ASCAP long ago why they don't have a sheet for bands to write down who's music they played so the proper person can get paid. They said it was cost prohibitive.

Now they are copyrighting arrangements of traditional tunes. If you go to BMI and look up Mississippi Sawyer you will find at least seven pages of copyrighted versions of that tune. It should be totally in public domain.

I have a radio show and during an audit time for copyright we are not supposed to play self released material. If self released material is copyrighted I make a point to play it for the person who is not rock star status.

[DavidKOS]

I am a BMI registered writer, and I have a BMI registered publishing company. All of my songs were written after 1923. So, if I play my own songs in public, shouldn't I get paid for them?

What is funny is if you play your BMI registered songs in a venue that doesn't pay licensing fees, BMI will probably shut them down, actually costing you as you've lost another venue to play in.

I believe you can request to be paid for your copyrighted material, but the venue had better be paying the fees. I have long fought for the fairness of paying copyright fees, and been told by ASCAP that to do it correctly would be cost prohibitive. I told them they do not have a viable business.

This answers your questions about BMI and your own registered music:

https://www.bmi.com/special/bmi_live

" BMI Live helps us get paid for when we play our songs live even at medium to smaller venues."

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe we should start a thread in which we collect songs or tunes for which we know have gone off copyright. Here are a few of which I play that no longer have copyright.

St. Louis Blues (1914)
Margie (1920)
St. James' Infirmary (under dispute)

Thank you.

This is a better use of this thread than another debate about PRO's and fees.

[DavidKOS]

Back in 1991 I co-wrote and published both the opening and closing themes for a popular local weekly old-time country music radio show. Those themes were played, and reported to BMI, every week for nearly 20 years - and we never saw a penny. One day when I was speaking to BMI about an unrelated matter, I asked about payments for those two songs. Essentially I was told that songs with such little airplay got 'eaten up in administrative costs'. Until Eric Clapton or Rhonda Vincent has a hit with one of my songs (you will notice I am not holding my breath on that one) I decided never bothered to inquire about any of my songs again.

I wonder about that...I would have checked further, that seems to be wrong.

[Mandobart]

Now they are copyrighting arrangements of traditional tunes. If you go to BMI and look up Mississippi Sawyer you will find at least seven pages of copyrighted versions of that tune. It should be totally in public domain.

My understanding is if you play "I Am a Pilgrim", for example, exactly like Merle Travis did, including the lyrics (which differ slightly from the original song written in the 1800's), you may be crossing out of the trad/public domain into copyrighted material. Anyone can copyright their particular version of a song; the original, however, remains in the public domain.

I'm not sure how parodies of popular songs (a la Weird Al Yankovich) fit into this. The original is copyrighted, and the parody as well?

[Mark Gunter]

I'm just happy that we're about to see the public domain body of works growing again! Woohoo.

But since we've gotten into the pet peeve portion of publishing, licensing, copyrighting and performing now, Id just like to GO ON RECORD as saying:

I don't think YouTube's content ID and monetization scheme is fair at all.