First F mandolins

[yankees1]

Were the first F mandolins used in Bluegrass oval or f hole instruments ?

[JFDilmando]

Monroe, started out with oval, but it all depends on the date you choose for saying "bingo, bluegrass started now"

[Bill McCall]

well, since Bill was the first and he played an F, its an F. I believe there may be pictures of Monroe with a Gibson oval, but that was pre bluegrass.

[pops1]

Bluegrass originated with the name of Bill's band "The Bluegrass Boys" after Earl and Lester joined the band. Before that bluegrass was not the name of a style of music.

[Mandoplumb]

Bluegrass as a style of music was named after the band that started it, but the style that the name was given to didn't exist until Scruggs joined the band, Flatt was already there and the music was moving toward what Monroe wanted but it still was just another " hillbilly " band. It took Flatt, Scruggs, and Monroe coming together with a different more driving music to become Bluegrass.

[yankees1]

Got it !

[allenhopkins]

The first bluegrass mandolin was whatever Bill Monroe was playing when he started the Blue Grass Boys. I believe at first it was an F-7, then he bought his trademark Lloyd Loar F-5 in the early 1940's. Both the F-7 and the F-5 had f-holes.

Other early bluegrass bands sometimes used oval-hole mandolins; Jimmy Martin owned an F-4 that he had his mandolin players play, including Paul Williams who was the best-known mandolinist of the early Sunny Mountain Boys. I've seen Everett Lilly of the Lilly Brothers with what looked like an F-4 as well. Red Rector, who worked with Charlie Monroe among others, played an oval-hole Gibson A-4, and the mandolin player in the Foggy Mountain Boys, Curly Seckler, for years played an oval-hole F-2.

The "standard" bluegrass mandolin, though, was an f-hole F-model, F-5 or (sometimes) F-12. Bluegrass mandolinists starting out, who couldn't afford one of those, often used A-40 or A-50 f-hole instruments; some, like Buzz Busby, stayed with them right through.

[Dave Hanson]

I understand that ' F ' style mandolins were originall designed for classical music.

Dave H

[allenhopkins]

I understand that ' F ' style mandolins were originally designed for classical music.

This view is related to the fact that many early mandolinists, and those involved with mandolin design at companies like Gibson, played or were interested in "non-folk" styles of music, such as classical, "light classical" pop music such as many mandolin ensembles played, ethnic music, etc. It wasn't until after mid-century that mandolin -- and other instrument -- manufacturers started featuring country, folk etc. players as endorsers and design contributors. Companies such as Gibson and Martin then produced "signature" models endorsed by players like Bill Monroe, Earl Scruggs, Pete Seeger, Joan Baez et. al.

Now, to clear up some confusing terminology: F-model mandolins refer to the Gibsonian body shape, carved top and back, with scroll, body points, fancy headstock etc.; f-hole mandolins refer to instruments with two "f-shaped" soundholes in their tops, as contrasted with a single round or oval hole. There are f-hole F-models (F-5, e.g.), oval-hole F-models (F-2, F-4).

Orville Gibson produced the first F-model mandolins in the first years of the 20th century. They were oval-hole instruments, and were used for whatever kind of music mandolinists were playing 1900-10. A lot of it we might call "classical," if we contrasted it with jazz, hillbilly, ethnic Italian, etc., though not much of it represented the really classical mandolin repertoire (Vivaldi, etc.). I have some c.1910 mandolin books my grandfather used, and they consist of composed instrumental music -- ragtime, waltzes, two-steps and such -- evidently turned out by Tin Pan Alley for the mandolin-club and mandolin-orchestra market.

Around 1924, Gibson acoustic engineer Lloyd Loar designed an F-model mandolin with f-holes, and Gibson started manufacturing, in the next ten years, F-models and A-models (without scroll and points) with either oval holes or f-holes. Loar himself was a noted player, whose repertoire reportedly consisted of composed pieces that could be termed "classical" or "pop-classical," similar to what the mandolin clubs and mandolin orchestras were playing.

Currently, classical mandolinists tend to prefer the earlier bowl-back design, since the bowl-back was the style of instrument for which the early classical mandolin repertoire was written. This probably is because the bowl-back was pretty much the only type of mandolin made, when the mandolin concerti were composed. You can play classical music on any style of mandolin, and I'm sure there are mandolinists out there playing classical music on F-model instruments, either f-hole or oval-hole.