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Thread: 1923 F4 Blacktop

  1. #1
    Registered User Hendrik Ahrend's Avatar
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    Default 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Has anybody ever seen a black 1923 F4? (They are guessing a '24, but it should be a '23 telling from the script inlay and the pointed back button.) Looking at the pics, I see some unusual lacquer checking and, if I'm not mistaken, some low/narrow binding towards the scroll mitre, which might hint at an old refin. But I'm not sure. If it was all original, it may sure be a one-off.
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    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Well with the back and sides looking how it should, without blowing up the pix I'd say that's a one off? As the top looks as clean as the rest? Gibson had a bunch of one offs and odd ball stuff.

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  5. #3
    Purveyor of Sunshine sgarrity's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    A really cool one-off? After the snakehead mandola was found I reckon anything is possible.....

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  7. #4
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    A black top F-4 that late is an anomaly. I would suggest that any prospective buyer require a careful in-hand inspection before finalizing a sale.

    Unusual Gibsons are occasionally seen, though. I know of 2 black A-3's, and an ivory F-2 that were considered to be original by the better known authorities. I looked one of the A-3's over carefully with the intention of buying it [it was for sale at Gruhn's about 22 years ago], and it definitely appeared to be authentic. But I didn't buy it. It was a weak sounding instrument and I just couldn't pull the trigger. I came home with an A-4 instead, which I still have.

  8. #5
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    I know of 2 black A-3's, and an ivory F-2 that were considered to be original by the better known authorities. I looked one of the A-3's over carefully with the intention of buying it [it was for sale at Gruhn's about 22 years ago], and it definitely appeared to be authentic.
    Was it a paddlehead?
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
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  9. #6
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Yes. I don't remember the exact year, but it was a mid to late 'teens model. Too bad it didn't sound better.

  10. #7
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    It is cool. The patina and finish cracks make it look orig. No black on binding or rosette. Hmmmm waiting to hear more comments.

  11. #8

    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Great looking F4 and it looks like it is in really good shape (hard to tell from those pics).

  12. #9
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    I'd say by the photos its the real deal, a Cremona body black top F-4! Its a one off more than likely and each year more old Gibson's come to surface again, from A's to F-5's!

  13. #10
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Quote Originally Posted by William Smith View Post
    I'd say by the photos its the real deal, a Cremona body black top F-4! Its a one off more than likely and each year more old Gibson's come to surface again, from A's to F-5's!
    If that’s the case, my guess would be that a blemish surfaced during the build that they ultimately decided to mask with the black top.
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
    2005 National RM-1
    2007 Hester A5
    2009 Passernig A5
    2015 Black A2-z
    2010 Black GBOM
    2017 Poe Scout
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    2019 Hogan F5

  14. #11
    Registered User William Smith's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    Yes that's a possibility but with Gibson they did custom work for endorsers who in turn sold to students, they designed many odd things like the Snake Dola that recently surfaced, white top F-2, I've even seen prototypes like that Lil Pup 29 strange 2 point Dawg may have, or Lowell Levenger?" Many Loar era Virzi F-4's with Loar F-5 cases? The strange no point Bellson F-4, other strange F-4's such as a one off I heard about a 1929 Gibson F-4 with an F-5 scale neck? In the 30's many mave different peg head inlays in a particular model like for example the wide big bell sunburst A-50's I've seen with flowerpot, fluer-de-lis headstock inlays? The few one off 30's H F-hole mandolas that clearly look like 1924 Tenor Lute bodies? We know Gibson used old parts for newer mandolin builds! Some post Loar F-5's sure have the same carving's as a Loar F-5? The list can go on and on with Gibson!

  15. #12
    Cafe Linux Mommy danb's Avatar
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    Default Re: 1923 F4 Blacktop

    does seem possible indeed

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