Old banjo fretboard question (no mando content)

**Oliver R** · Apr-29-2019, 6:26am

Hello,
I have an old zither banjo in at present.The fretboard at some point has had some dents filled and the board painted a 'really' badly finished gloss black (including the frets!!).
I have cleaned and leveled the frets and flattened down the gloss black to a 'patchy' mat black.
It will be impossible to totally clean the board back to wood as the paint has soaked in and my plan was to carefully repaint the board but sticking to matt black...and advice on paint choices?
Cheers
Oliver.

**Oliver R** · Apr-29-2019, 6:29am

Also...it's a bit weird, it's obviously a 5 string but it has six tuners on the headstock (including one for the string buried in the neck)

**Paul Busman** · Apr-29-2019, 7:16am

I'm no luthier, but why not try automotive spray paint? You could mask it off and easily spray it on. You'd have to clean the frets again but that would be relatively easy (right?). Maybe you could carefully apply something like petroleum jelly to just the tops of the frets first so the paint doesn't stick as much.
I built a kit Les Paul clone once and painted it with automotive paint and the results were excellent,even for a newbie, and it was very durable.
Matte finish,whatever you use, will get some finger polishing as the banjo is played. Maybe you could get an eggshell or semi-gloss.
Pictures please, in any event!

**Parker135** · Apr-29-2019, 7:55am

Six tuners, with one unused, on a five string zither banjo is a common setup.

**Oliver R** · Apr-29-2019, 9:30am

Yes I was thinking that kind of thing and as you say Paul ..might go with a sort of satin finish.

Is that so about the unused tuner..thats interesting, just using what they have I suppose!

**Wrnchbndr** · Apr-29-2019, 10:41am

You might consider using just a light coat of black lacquer. A scrap piece of bone or soft brass with a small slot cut into an edge can be used to remove the black from the fret tops with additional cleanup via a q-tip and acetone. Just let the lacquer wear normally over the years. It might end up looking appropriate for the age of the instrument.

**Oliver R** · Apr-29-2019, 11:51am

That would be nice but I’m not sure how well it will adhere to the board. As I said I cannot get it back to bare wood so not sure if that would be a problem?

**MikeEdgerton** · Apr-29-2019, 1:06pm

The 6 tuner 5 string banjo with the tube for the 5th string was exclusive to the UK and I never really understood why they did that.

**Oliver R** · Apr-29-2019, 2:08pm

No Mike, it’s bizarre to say the least, but that’s us lot for you!��

**pops1** · Apr-29-2019, 2:27pm

Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton

The 6 tuner 5 string banjo with the tube for the 5th string was exclusive to the UK and I never really understood why they did that.

I have one hanging on the wall of my shop. I believe it can be played as a 5 string banjo, and because the 5th string goes thru the neck and is not in the way, it can also be played as a banjo guitar.

**MikeEdgerton** · Apr-29-2019, 4:10pm

Originally Posted by pops1

I have one hanging on the wall of my shop. I believe it can be played as a 5 string banjo, and because the 5th string goes thru the neck and is not in the way, it can also be played as a banjo guitar.

Maybe if you slotted a new nut and a new bridge, have enough holes in the tailpiece and don't mind a very narrow fingerboard you could. It's just very strange. I've seen a few where they removed the string post from one of the guitar tuners.

I'm going to guess the original builder either could not get banjo tuners or didn't like them very much. I don't know.

**MikeEdgerton** · Apr-29-2019, 4:14pm

If you can believe everything you read on the Internet this might explain it. I'm not so sure but I don't have any other explanation.

https://creekdontrise.com/acoustic/z...ther_banjo.htm

**pops1** · Apr-29-2019, 4:30pm

It says in the article Mike, some tuned them as guitars. It's anybody's guess, there were a lot of weird instruments that never caught on in those days.

**MikeEdgerton** · Apr-30-2019, 7:36am

I'm sure they tuned them as the high four strings on a guitar. You can't magically make string slots and space on the fretboard appear. Heck, I tune tenor banjos Chicago style half the time. I'm sure somebody has tried to make a six string out of them, I'm just not sure how easy it would be on most of them.

**Oliver R** · Apr-30-2019, 7:58am

I would say looking at this example that what you say is correct Mike...4 string slots, 5 string posts at the tail and if somehow you did manage to get six strings on it I would defy most peoples fingers to be of any use playing it!

**Jim Garber** · Apr-30-2019, 11:02am

I have seen 6 string banjos and even 7-string ones with the shorter drone. Some players of classical or ragtime styles did play banjos with more than 5 strings. A friend of mine owned a 7 string fretless banjo. It was not a zither style but was made by a known American maker.

**MikeEdgerton** · Apr-30-2019, 11:41am

Jim, there will always be mutations. I just think the majority of these zither banjos that have 5 strings with 6 tuners wouldn't just convert to a 6 string banjo without some real modifications. As the proud own of what luthier Dave Nichols refers to as an abomination (a six-string banjo) I'm pretty familiar with the genre. Every time I used to see zither banjo with the 6 tuners on eBay my first thought was "can I make it a six string". It's just not an easy conversion.

**Oliver R** · Apr-30-2019, 5:55pm

Yep, lots of variations on a theme but this particular banjo looks like it is a 5 string using what was a modified neck off a six stringer of some sort. I suppose it might have been cheaper than making new jigs.

**Jim Garber** · Apr-30-2019, 9:29pm

Actually I think my friend did have a Lyon & Healy 7-string like this one.

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**Oliver R** · May-01-2019, 3:56am

Thats some neck!
The one I have is a John Grey one very like this...

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**Oliver R** · May-01-2019, 5:12am

As an aside, does anyone have any tips for taking these things apart 'without' removing the vellum (which is in good nick and a nice tension).
Cheers
Oliver

**MB-Octo** · May-01-2019, 7:50am

Glad this topic came up. I saw Sarah Jarosz using a 6-string on NPR's Tiny Desk Concert (YouTube) and have been pondering it. Finally looked it up. There's a blurb about it half-way down this page:

https://americansongwriter.com/2012/...ring-garden/3/

**MikeEdgerton** · May-01-2019, 8:27am

My first 6-string banjo was a Deering B-6 that I had customized with a more traditional looking plate and better tuners. I should have kept that one. It was light and sounded pretty good. Instead I bought a six-string unfinished Deering neck and mated it to a Deering tenor pot that I bought from a Cafe member in Canby, Oregon. Put Fults tailpiece and Waverly tuners. It sounds wonderful but is heavy as heck.

**allenhopkins** · May-03-2019, 9:08am

OK, here's at least one explanation from a zither banjo article:

The curious thing about most 5-string zither-banjos is that they had six tuning pegs. The main reason for this was that many manufacturers found it more economical to use "3-on-a-plate" guitar tuning machines. However some makers did make their custom tuners with one side "3-on-a-plate" and the other "2-on-a-plate." Also, there were 6-string zither-banjos (5 melody strings and 1 short "thumb" string) and 7-string versions.

Makes some sense to me. Most zither banjos had slotted headstocks, like many guitars of the period, and buying a set of guitar tuners to attach to a symmetrical headstock could be an obvious manufacturing "short cut."

The "tunnel" for the 5th string, with the tuning peg on the headstock rather than on the neck at the 5th fret, is another curiosity of the zither banjo, but there are some evident positive features in terms of not having to work around the 5th string peg when fretting.