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Thread: Mandolin missing 46 years

  1. #1
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Mandolin missing 46 years

    We have this in the classifieds today. A mandolin stolen 46 years ago. The only problem I see is that that might not be a a serial number, it might be a Factory Order Number. If it is a FON there could be a dozen mandolins with the same number.

    Anybody have the Spann book handy? Does Y4091 show up as a FON and what model is it?

    Just for the person that placed the ad: #longlostmandolin
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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    For posterity, the verbiage of the ad and the photo:

    A few years back I found a list of items stolen from my Grandparents house in Verona, KY on Sept 27, 1972.

    The list included my Grandfather's mandolin. I know this is a long shot but I wonder, with the power and reach of the internet if I could locate it.

    It was a Gibson A model serial number Y4091. I think it was made around 1906.

    If you are willing to share this in a post, please include the following hashtag #longlostmandolin

    Thank you,
    Scott
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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  3. #3

    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Interesting to me is that somebody thought to write down the number back then.

    I hope they find it. Wouldn't it be interesting if it were still in the same town? I'm guessing it probably went to a pawn shop with the guns and jewelry......

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    A quick look at Spann reveals the only FON with "4091" in it to be in the 1940-1945 range, and it's a 1941 F-5, but with a "G" prefix, not "Y". In the Serial Number chapter, however, Spann shows "4091" to have possibly been from 1905, but with no mention of a prefix. The "Y" prefix doesn't seem ever to have been used, either with FONs or serial numbers.

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Looking at Spann, Y4091 doesn’t sound like a valid FON. Prefixes only go as high as “G” and that was in the 1940s. So we have a mandolin of un-known model, un-known date, no serial number and what appears to be a spurious FON. Given that the original theft took place almost 50 years ago, I don’t hold out much hope.

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    A "Y" prefix was used on Gibson factory order numbers in 1953.
    Spann only covers numbers through WWII.
    See "Gruhn's Guide to Vintage Guitars."

    Gibson was making the following models in 1953: A-40, A-50, F-5, F-12, and EM-150.
    Last edited by rcc56; May-01-2019 at 6:43pm.

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    I tried doing a simple internet search to see if the mandolin miraculously popped up in somebody's store inventory - but to no avail. Somehow, I get the strange feeling that it is a distinct possibility that I could be in the closet or music room of some current Cafe member . . . only time will tell.

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    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    If it was an A-40, Id try to find the color TV

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  12. #9
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Yeah, I suspect that even if he finds a mandolin with this FON, and I think it's a FON, he's not going to be able to claim it as his own because it's not a serial number. Someone took the 1906 year from the fact that the mandolin Archive shows 4090 as a 1906 A style mandolin. There's nothing on the list that says it was an A model so unless there's a complete list of FON's and instruments that comes after the Spann list, the model is unknown.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeZito View Post
    I tried doing a simple internet search to see if the mandolin miraculously popped up in somebody's store inventory - but to no avail. Somehow, I get the strange feeling that it is a distinct possibility that I could be in the closet or music room of some current Cafe member . . . only time will tell.
    It wouldn't matter if it was a Factory Order Number. There could be a dozen or more instruments with that FON.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  14. #11

    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    No telling how many times the mandolin has been bought and sold over the last 46 years. Someone might even have a bill of sale. Some people mistakenly feel that after an instrument has been bought and sold a number of times that it somehow becomes "UN-stolen" and therefore legit -- that is not the case, a stolen instrument is always stolen until recovered.

    In this case, there is little documentation other than an old typewritten paper, which would not serve as proof. If the grandson has family photos which show the mandolin, that would be better, at least it would show what the model was. Still, it would look like hundreds of other mandolins that Gibson produced, unless the mandolin had something distinctive about it, such as the owner's name painted on the face of it, for example.....

    Working at a vintage music store, we often got into situations where a former owner "found" his old instrument in our stock, serial number matched, etc........BUT, UNLESS HE FILED A POLICE REPORT at the time of the theft, which is still on file -- he has no proof in the eyes of the law, other than he knows the serial number. In this case, he has no legal claim to the instrument. Working at a store, in this situation, we usually offered the former owner the opportunity to buy it at our cost, which sometimes they agreed to, sometimes not. OTOH, when someone brought in a police report, the officer would grab the instrument from our wall and hand it to the former owner. End of story.

    IN THIS CASE, as the grandson says, it is a long shot. If someone has the mandolin and the story adds up, location, number, etc. -- they still wouldn't be obligated to return it, but might decide to out of kindness and in the interest of good karma, IMHO.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    And again, if you found a mandolin with that number inside it still might not be the ad poster's mandolin if it's a FON. You would need to know how many mandolins of the model were in that Factory Order Number. When that number exceeds one that FON does not identify the instrument. If someone feels like gifting a mandolin with the same FON they of course are welcome too. As the firearms in that list are marked "Recovered" I'm going to guess they filed a police report. I work for an insurance company. In the 80's one of our insureds had a collection of guns stolen in Wisconsin. We have been receiving those guns from police departments all across the country for years. The last two were from an antique firearms dealer in Tennessee last year.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    That "Y" prefix messes up any chronology that includes either serial numbers or FON's. As far as I know, Gibson wasn't making any A mandolins in 1953, when they used "Y" as a FON prefix.

    Guessing the number was mis-recorded.
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Quote Originally Posted by allenhopkins View Post
    As far as I know, Gibson wasn't making any A mandolins in 1953, when they used "Y" as a FON prefix.
    First, you're assuming it's an A style. You can't make that assumption, the ad poster made his assumption based on what he thought was a serial number and I wasn't aware that Gibson wasn't make A style mandolins in the early 50's. Where does that come from?
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    That solves that problem. Here is a 1953 Gibson A 50 with the original Ad poster's FON -1 (4090) with a 48 behind it. If I'm not mistaken that means there were at least 48 of them. It would appear they were manufacturing A models. I would assume that the next FON would be multiples and maybe it wasn't an A.

    https://reverb.com/item/912784-1953-gibson-a50-with-hsc
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  19. #16
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    For posterity.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  20. #17

    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    He stands a lot better chance of getting it back if it is an A-50, rather than an F-5..........................just saying!

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    There's no way he can positively identify it unless the owner scratched his social security number or name on it someplace. If they made a batch of at least 48 A-50's I'd venture a guess they made a batch of whatever on the next FON. Again, anyone that has a mandolin with this number can feel free to donate it to the ad poster but there's no way it can be identified.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

  22. #19

    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Well, at least this might narrow down what kind of mandolin it was: A 1953 Gibson A Model...perhaps.
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
    --J. Garber

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    Registered User Bruce Clausen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    This has got me thinking about a nice 'fifties Fender Dual Six steel guitar I had stolen out of an East Bay club in 1967. Anyone seen one around? No idea of the serial number, but I'll know it if I see it again!

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    This has got me thinking about a nice 'fifties Fender Dual Six steel guitar I had stolen out of an East Bay club in 1967. Anyone seen one around? No idea of the serial number, but I'll know it if I see it again!
    You never know. Peter Frampton eventually got his Les Paul back after the plane it was in crashed in the jungle: https://www.npr.org/2012/01/07/14479...-decades-later
    "it's not in bad taste, if it's funny" - john waters

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    Default Re: Mandolin missing 46 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Clausen View Post
    This has got me thinking about a nice 'fifties Fender Dual Six steel guitar I had stolen out of an East Bay club in 1967. Anyone seen one around? No idea of the serial number, but I'll know it if I see it again!
    I have a late 50's Triple 8 Stringmaster. Fender's serial numbers were all over the place - no rhyme or reason. About the only way to date them is to look under the tuning key ashtray.
    Randy Mallory
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    and a few more....

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