Are there any Luigi Embergher fakes? How to ID?

[poul hansen]

I'm looking to buy a Luigi Embergher mandolin online tomorrow. It has a Luigi Embergher label and the "Florida" I've seen on other Luigi Emberghers on the net but wonder if there are others telltales.

EDIT: Looks like it's a student model Typo A, 1951. Any ideas of value?

[poul hansen]

Not much respose, so I'd better do it myself.

As a 1951 type A is a student model built by the Embergher workshop, after the master died, and it had some glue problems on the bowl, I abstained from the deal.

[brunello97]

Hmmm. I thought this question would certainly have drawn more tugs here.

What with Alex, Ralf, Jim, Martin and other LE experts and aficionados here.

I'm interested to know myself.

Mick

[poul hansen]

Here's what I found

defining features of the Embergher construction:

- Triangular neck
- Narrow violin-style nut
- Radiussed and slanted fretboard
- Streamlined bowlshape with distinct recurve at the neck joint
- Slotted headstock

[Jim Garber]

In answer to your general topic question, Embergher is a Roman-style mandolin with the characteristics you list. There were other Roman style makers even before Luigi Embergher. Also there were other contemporary makers. There is a recent thread on Carlo Colombo Bruno of Torino who was also a violin maker and who made Roman style instruments. I own one of them and bought it because it looked Roman.

One other aspects of Embergher was that the bridges are usually compensated for the proper string gauges. They are also built very light and resonant. Also they were voiced for ensemble (styles 1-3) and solo (5 and up) with different bracing.

[nico verde]

Hi Poul,

I happen to have the same Embergher Tipo A - Studio, but dating back to 1912, when the address of the workshop was Via delle Carrozze 19, and the label was different from the one you posted. AFAIK, however, the stamp on top of the headstock (sometimes on the back od it) was kept also after the death of Luigi Embergher, but experts of this forum can say more about it. So, the stamp could be decisive in your case

[poul hansen]

I backed out. I think a 1951 A model at 330 usd is too expensive. i was lured by the otherwise high prices but they are for mandolins build by the man himself and more elaborate models.

[nico verde]

I agree, plus with such a crack on the table... Btw what did you mean by "Florida"?

[poul hansen]

"Florida" is a common nickname(here on the board) for that strange extension of the fretboard over the soundhole. Obvious why ;-)

Yes that crack was BIG. I got some extra photos

[nico verde]

Ok, thanks, I had no idea it's nicknamed like this... Big crack, but not uncommon, Emberghers are so lightly built that they tend to crack a lot, as far as I know

[Jim Garber]

The fretboard extension for Gibson mandolins does look like a map of southern Florida but I have never heard it referred to for mandolins such as this, especially European ones. Unusual to find a student model made so late in Embergher studio existence. That price was not terrible and it looked like the crack was reparable but no sense in buying especially if there were other issues.

[Richard500]

(From wikipedia). I like this one, but the Fascists didn’t.
So is a post-War Embergher just not as good as an instrument, or is it just less collectible without the master’s influence?
And, about the Florida in general: was this just a more frets than the other guys thing, or did virtuosos venture into that region?

[Jim Garber]

(From wikipedia). I like this one, but the Fascists didn’t.
So is a post-War Embergher just not as good as an instrument, or is it just less collectible without the master’s influence?
And, about the Florida in general: was this just a more frets than the other guys thing, or did virtuosos venture into that region?

That odd-ball mandolin is a Cetra-Madami built in the 1920s. I don’t quite understand the Wikipedia article that seemed to state that the Embergher shop had to shut down in the 1930 confusedly because of this mandolin. More likely it was because they lost their export markets. It opened later in the year and stayed open until 1935. Then LE handed over the reins to Domenico Cerrone under whose auspices there were excellent mandolins made and the shop stayed open into (I believe) the 1960s. I have played a few of the soloist 5 bis models from the Cerrone era and they are exquisite.


This is my 1913 Embergher A: http://www.classicalmandolin.net/ins...embergherA.htm

[Jim Garber]

And here is my 1904 No. 3.

[Charles E.]

And here is my 1904 No. 3.

Nice looking Embergher Jim!

[DavidKOS]

And, about the Florida in general: was this just a more frets than the other guys thing, or did virtuosos venture into that region?

Yes the extended fingerboard was used by virtuoso players. The dotted line in the first measure is part of an 8v up notation:



https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...er+range+frets

[Jim Garber]

Nice looking Embergher Jim!

Yes! And a BIG thanks to you for your part in my acquiring it.

[vic-victor]

Answering the very question from OP, yes, there were some LE fakes floating around. Most were pretty obvious to the trained eye. There was one I can recall with a LE advertisement inside rather than a proper label and it wasn't even of Roman type. Another fake that sold for a substantial amount I can recall was a very fancy No. 7 model of Roman type, but it had many irregularities, although the label was correct in every way. The one in OP's question does look legit and the price is good for a student model in this condition.