Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

  1. #1
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    KC MO
    Posts
    625

    Default Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    On Friday I took a day trip to a music store that might have a bigger selection of higher-end mandolins than any other music store in Missouri (that store is Morgan Music in Lebanon, MO) and definitely more good mandolins than I've found in any stores that are a day trip away from Kansas City. I got to play a Northfield F5S and Big Mon, a Gibson F5G, a 1924 Gibson A4, a 70's Gibson F12 (shockingly bad, even after what I've read over the years, lol), an assortment of Collings from MT to MF5, and some miscellaneous Chinese and American brands. (My favorite mandolins this time were the two Northfields. On my last visit last summer, my favorite was a Ratliff R5F - wish there had been one this time.)

    While at the store, I talked to Bobby about fiddles and how I had dabbled on my son's fiddle some years ago and had kept wanting to buy a lower-priced fiddle just for the fun of it. Bobby gave quick demos of a wide range of new and old fiddles, from $100 and up to about $2500. Bobby then left me to my own devices. I played one particularly rough looking old German fiddle and was shocked by the resonance from that fiddle's body (even with my rusty playing). These days I'm mainly a mandolin player, but even after playing some very nice mandolins that day, the rich reverberation of that relatively cheap fiddle was a revelation!

    I will still buy a step-up mandolin one of these days (hopefully this spring), but I walked away with that beat-up old German fiddle. I probably overpaid because it IS so rough and is just a trade violin from a time and place that generated a lot of junk violins (and Morgan Music's Reverb entry called the condition "fair," lol), but I was going by my ear and that $500 fiddle just sounded so rich.
    Doug Brock
    2018 Kimble 2 point (#259), Eastman MD315, Eastman MDA315, some guitars, banjos, and fiddles

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Doug Brock For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Mandolin Player trodgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Southeast Iowa, U.S.A.
    Posts
    181

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Glad to hear about your visit to Morgan Music. I think they are one of the real 'hidden gems' of music stores. I've made the trek down to Lebanon several times under the cover of a family spring-break trout fishing adventure. Little does my family know, I'm not much of a fisherman. Once the obligatory morning trip to the stream is over, it's off to town to get 'supplies.'

    I've always found the Morgan Music staff very helpful with a very friendly stay-and-play attitude. The other thing I really appreciate is that staff I've dealt with are very non-judgemental about the customer's skill level or present instrument. I traded in a rather crude $60 Johnson A model there, and there was no attitude whatsoever. The clerk picked it up and strummed it, noted that I had obviously done some set-up work, and commented that he was happy to get a really good beginners instrument into the store. He could have as easily turned up his nose and said, "Oh, one of those..."

    Good store, good folks!
    “Like winds and sunsets, wild things were taken for granted until progress began to do away with them. Now we face the question whether a still higher ‘standard of living’ is worth its cost in things natural, wild and free.” -- Aldo Leopold

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to trodgers For This Useful Post:


  5. #3

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Most good stores have stayed in business by treating customers well. They tend to come back when it's time to spend several thousand dollars on a better instrument because they were respected when their budget was $500. I had a nice experience at The Mandolin Store when I stated that my reason for going there was to educate myself as to what I might have to spend on an upgrade. Their attitude? I'd already bought an Eastman from them, so was already a valued customer.
    Silverangel A
    Arches F style kit
    1913 Gibson A-1

  6. #4
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Forest Grove, Oregon
    Posts
    2,776

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    If it sounds good, it is good. Doesn't matter what the bling is.

    Refreshing to here someone bought an instrument irregardless of the looks, just for the sound.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

    Arrow Manouche
    Arrow Jazzbo
    Arrow G
    Clark 2 point
    Gibson F5L
    Gibson A-4
    Ratliff CountryBoy A

  7. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Bill McCall For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    1,252

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    I had a brief chance to strum John Reichmanns L. Loar...it had a stunning amount of neck resonances!
    Fiddles are much more finely carved vs mando.
    2007 Weber Custom Elite "old wood"
    2017 Ratliff R5 Custom #1148
    Several nice old Fiddles
    2007 Martin 000-15S 12 fret Auditorium-slot head
    Deering Classic Open Back
    Too many microphones

    BridgerCreekBoys.com

  9. The following members say thank you to MontanaMatt for this post:


  10. #6
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    1,919
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Violins have a different sound production mechanism, for all the effort of Loar to emulate them. The first difference is the continuous energy input from the bow, as opposed to a transient from a pick. The second difference is the bridge action, with the much taller bridge efficiently pumping the bass side by its rocking motion, which is enabled by the soundpost. A violin top can be thinner, also, due to carrying less tension load from the strings.
    Bandcamp -- https://tomwright1.bandcamp.com/
    Videos--YouTube
    Sound Clips--SoundCloud
    The viola is proof that man is not rational

  11. The following members say thank you to Tom Wright for this post:


  12. #7
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    KC MO
    Posts
    625

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wright View Post
    Violins have a different sound production mechanism, for all the effort of Loar to emulate them. The first difference is the continuous energy input from the bow, as opposed to a transient from a pick. The second difference is the bridge action, with the much taller bridge efficiently pumping the bass side by its rocking motion, which is enabled by the soundpost. A violin top can be thinner, also, due to carrying less tension load from the strings.
    Yes, I'm aware of those differences. I was still amazed at the richness and volume of a low-end fiddle (even if it seems to be a nicer-than-average-sounding low-end fiddle) compared to some very nice mandolins.
    Doug Brock
    2018 Kimble 2 point (#259), Eastman MD315, Eastman MDA315, some guitars, banjos, and fiddles

  13. #8
    Pataphysician Joe Bartl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Adamstown, MD
    Posts
    460

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Right! I just started violin lessons a month and a half ago and have this week graduated from the E and A strings to the D and G strings. The instrument, an old no-name in my bro's closet for decades, has come alive alive in a way I've never experienced on a mando. Quite a revelation! At this point I'd be afraid to touch a cello ...

    Joe

  14. The following members say thank you to Joe Bartl for this post:


  15. #9

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    I have an oil can that is more resonant than a fiddle.

  16. #10

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSausage View Post
    I have an oil can that is more resonant than a fiddle.
    I see your oil can and raise you one pie plate.

  17. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Marty Jacobson For This Useful Post:


  18. #11
    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    lower alabama
    Posts
    893

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Bartl View Post
    Right! I just started violin lessons a month and a half ago and have this week graduated from the E and A strings to the D and G strings. The instrument, an old no-name in my bro's closet for decades, has come alive alive in a way I've never experienced on a mando. Quite a revelation! At this point I'd be afraid to touch a cello ...

    Joe
    So a bass is entirely out of the question...

  19. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of those differences. I was still amazed at the richness and volume of a low-end fiddle (even if it seems to be a nicer-than-average-sounding low-end fiddle) compared to some very nice mandolins.
    Maybe this is also very obvious but one advantage I find playing fiddle vs. mandolin in a jam session is that the fiddle is played much closer to the ears than a mandolin. So add that to the mix along with the structural differences as Tom mentioned. I can play mandolin in a small session but in a huge roomful of instruments—forget it! I always end up playing fiddle.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  20. The following members say thank you to Jim Garber for this post:


  21. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Hiram, Maine
    Posts
    250

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    The great thing about fiddles is that cost isn't necessarily reflective of quality in fiddling terms. Sometimes the trade violins make perfect fiddles, better than a higher end instrument that might be a wonderful classical violin. Classical violinists generally tend to (emphasis on "generally" prefer very focused and, perhaps, brighter instruments. Especially since they play in higher positions, and with different techniques than us fiddlers. A somewhat lower end instrument CAN have plenty of good tone and resonance in the areas a fiddle player wants. If that makes any sense.
    Also, cosmetic condition can depreciate any instrument, so that $500 beat-up German trade fiddle could have been priced far higher in different condition, irrespective of build and playing quality.

  22. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mainer73 For This Useful Post:


  23. #14
    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    south florida
    Posts
    2,820

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    I played one particularly rough looking old German fiddle and was shocked by the resonance from that fiddle's body (even with my rusty playing). These days I'm mainly a mandolin player, but even after playing some very nice mandolins that day, the rich reverberation of that relatively cheap fiddle was a revelation!

    I will still buy a step-up mandolin one of these days (hopefully this spring), but I walked away with that beat-up old German fiddle. I probably overpaid because it IS so rough and is just a trade violin from a time and place that generated a lot of junk violins (and Morgan Music's Reverb entry called the condition "fair," lol), but I was going by my ear and that $500 fiddle just sounded so rich.
    Yep, you can get some nice surprises with the old German trade violins. Back when I used to know a lot more teachers, I regularly focused on buying just those types of violins on eBay, which I did minor setup work on and turned around and sold to their students. I would keep the best one for myself, and occasionally would regret selling one. Very recently I got really lucky - I had my eye on one for the first time in years, as the bidding was still so low near the end of the auction. I couldn't be there at the end, so I put in a bid just to get it higher, 1/2 hour before it ended. I was shocked to come back in and find the message "you won this auction!". It needed a new bridge, but once I did that, the instrument just sings and vibrates in my hands and runs circles around the "keeper" I had on hand all the intervening years since I used to be a regular buyer/seller. It even looks good, with a lovely figured one-piece back. The seller was surprised it didn't go higher too, as most of his instruments do, but I guess the snipers were all asleep at the switch; it cost me all of $260 shipped, and I'm all set now, with my new, old 'occasional player' violin!

    bratsche
    "There are two refuges from the miseries of life: music and cats." - Albert Schweitzer

    GearGems - Gifts & apparel for musicians and more!
    MandolaViola's YouTube Channel

  24. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to bratsche For This Useful Post:


  25. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Chicagoland
    Posts
    720

    Default Re: Resonance of a fiddle vs mandolins (wow)

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Brock View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of those differences. I was still amazed at the richness and volume of a low-end fiddle (even if it seems to be a nicer-than-average-sounding low-end fiddle) compared to some very nice mandolins.
    Try playing them with a pick instead of a bow & then report back.

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •