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Thread: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

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    Default Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Just curious about people's thoughts who have used both. I guess I'm happy with my Red Eye...but GAS and "the grass is always greener" mentality have got me thinking about "upgrading" my DI, though I'm not even sure it's that much of an upgrade. FWIW, I play in a band where we all plug in...generally play loud environments (bars, breweries)...play around 40 shows a year...and, like I said, just wondering if it really makes much sense. Curious to hear any opinions from folks who are well acquainted with both DI boxes. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    I don’t have any experience with the DI’s you mentioned, but I highly recommend the Tone Dexter. It is the best combination of sound / feedback proof of all the setups I’ve used for live sound in the past. It uses mic recorded images of your mandolin to create a sound that is much closer to a microphone, but through your pickup.
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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Vic is hip to the new jive!
    ToneDexter is by far the best way to go for acoustic tone with piezoelectric pickups of quality acoustic instruments.

    I’m a 100 show a year(pre Covid stats) professional picker, that loves tone, and has used lots of different d.I. configurations.
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Orr View Post
    Just curious about people's thoughts who have used both. I guess I'm happy with my Red Eye...but GAS and "the grass is always greener" mentality have got me thinking about "upgrading" my DI, though I'm not even sure it's that much of an upgrade. FWIW, I play in a band where we all plug in...generally play loud environments (bars, breweries)...play around 40 shows a year...and, like I said, just wondering if it really makes much sense. Curious to hear any opinions from folks who are well acquainted with both DI boxes. Thanks!
    I used a Red-Eye for a 200 + gigs then went for the shiny new Alix. After a bunch of gigs I decided I likes the sound of my mandolin through the Red Eye better so sold the Alix and bought another Red Eye (twin). I also noticed at times a strange type of clipping with the Alix. I dd like the sound of my guitar through the Alix though.

    We can get pretty loud at times too. I have a K&K in my KimblE A5.

    The Red Eye twin has been updated with some new features.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    I hear you - always fun to purchase great gear ! That's why I own various preamps, beside checking the best solution when switching between several instruments on stage (guitar, mandolin, dobro, bouzouki, banjo).

    I own the Grace Felix, Redeye Twin, Tonedexter, SunnAudio. Like them all.
    Yes, the ToneDexter is an awesome tool, making my K&K equipped Collings MF5 sound like a miked mandolin. But for some reason I never could bond with that IR-thing.

    If you need decent EQ, Felix and Alix are great. I especially like the high pass filter which I use on my soundboard transducer equipped guitars. No need to purchase the Felix if you don't use two channels. And I would take a close look at the SunnAudio Prestine preamp/D.I. (single channel) and SunnAudio MS-2 (dual channel / blender).
    Great sound quality, less expensive compared with the Grace products, awesome customer service.
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Isn't it an unfair comparison because the Grace stuff has EQ controls and the Red Eye does not?

    I started out with a Red Eye and went to a Venue DI to get more EQ control. For me, I really need those EQ controls. The Red Eye is great on guitar, but, imo, not for mandolin.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    I've been using the Red Eye for mandolin for several years. Used Orchid, Baggs, K&K preamps, but nothing worked for me like the Red Eye. I like that it's small and simple, I don't need all the knobs. Bass control on most preamps is set for guitar and around 80 hz, no help to the mandolin at all. I have gotten compliments from other mandolin players at events about my sound so I guess it works.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    I would totally buy a ToneDexter...if I could find one. From what I understand, the microchips they use are unavailable, with no indication when they will be available again. Production has been halted for a while and there is no way to buy one new anymore. Trying to find one used right now is like searching for needle in a haystack

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    I guess my question is whether the EQ controls, and the unit as a whole, are really worth it, at least for your run-of-the-mill mandolin player, as opposed to the fuss-free sound from the Red Eye. I guess I'm either looking for a good excuse to buy one, or some good reasons to just stick with that I have

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Oh man….bummer to hear about the Tone Dexter. I love mine. I hope they can get chips soon.

    A note to anyone with a K&K that wants to use a Grace Bix Pre amp. You have to get an impedance adapter from Grace to lower the input impedance from the K & K. The Red Eye (which is also a great preamp) has the lower input and therefore doesn’t require the adapter.

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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    I also recommend the Triton Piezoelectric BigAmp
    It is super simple, high quality, high input impedance, clean, inline di.
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    Quietly Making Noise Dave Greenspoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay View Post
    Isn't it an unfair comparison because the Grace stuff has EQ controls and the Red Eye does not?

    I started out with a Red Eye and went to a Venue DI to get more EQ control. For me, I really need those EQ controls. The Red Eye is great on guitar, but, imo, not for mandolin.
    I went from the Baggs to the Boss AD-10. Great piece of kit, and far surpasses the Baggs for functions and capacity.
    Axes: Eastman MD-515 & El Rey; Eastwood S Mandola
    Amps: Fishman Loudbox 100; Rivera Clubster Royale Recording Head & R212 cab; Laney Cub 10

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Orr View Post
    I guess my question is whether the EQ controls, and the unit as a whole, are really worth it, at least for your run-of-the-mill mandolin player, as opposed to the fuss-free sound from the Red Eye. I guess I'm either looking for a good excuse to buy one, or some good reasons to just stick with that I have
    I hear you. Probably depends on the instrument and the only way to find out is to try it.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Orr View Post
    I guess my question is whether the EQ controls, and the unit as a whole, are really worth it, at least for your run-of-the-mill mandolin player, as opposed to the fuss-free sound from the Red Eye. I guess I'm either looking for a good excuse to buy one, or some good reasons to just stick with that I have
    There are EQ controls on the channel of the PA.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    So, you're going to have to forgive me here, but I am embarrassingly ignorant about amplifying sound. You actually bring up a point I've kind've wondered about and feel like I should just know...what is the best path to dial in my sound? Our board is a bare bones analog mixer. It basically has the ability to adjust lows, mids, and highs. My Red Eye lets me adjust the treble...and being a mandolin, I tend to keep it at zero since there is already plenty of treble. Generally speaking, if a board has some basic EQ controls, and the DI box basically has the same controls, does it even matter which controls I use to maybe drop my highs a bit and boost the mids a tad, or are there practical reasons to use one over the other? I realize this is probably a 101 level question for amplifying an instrument, but I really am pretty ignorant about so much of this stuff.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Funny thing about that...I just found a Tonedexter on Reverb after at least a month of waiting for one to show up. Bought it immediately and am looking forward to trying it out. The dobro guy who sits in with my band pretty regularly swears by his Tonedexter.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Congrats! They take awhile to setup, so be patient. During the learning phase, experiment with several mic placements and several different microphones if you have them. I found different instruments sounded best with different mics. Upgrade the operating system to the latest rollout, and load the settings for high-pitched instruments if you are primarily using it for mandolin. Good luck and enjoy!
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Orr View Post
    So, you're going to have to forgive me here, but I am embarrassingly ignorant about amplifying sound. You actually bring up a point I've kind've wondered about and feel like I should just know...what is the best path to dial in my sound? Our board is a bare bones analog mixer. It basically has the ability to adjust lows, mids, and highs. My Red Eye lets me adjust the treble...and being a mandolin, I tend to keep it at zero since there is already plenty of treble. Generally speaking, if a board has some basic EQ controls, and the DI box basically has the same controls, does it even matter which controls I use to maybe drop my highs a bit and boost the mids a tad, or are there practical reasons to use one over the other? I realize this is probably a 101 level question for amplifying an instrument, but I really am pretty ignorant about so much of this stuff.
    I feel using two sets of tone controls is not beneficial. Lows, mids, and highs should be sufficient. The only thing to add may be a parametric EQ, but it's not necessary. You are either going to run one set flat or the other. Cutting a frequency from one and boosting the same one on the other will give you square waves and can damage your speakers. One of the reasons I like the Red Eye is it's simplicity. I run the treble about half way (flat) or more and cut the highs slightly on the PA. Taking the treble down all the way will take highs out of the G string too, which I find I don't like the sound of. Keeping as much in your sound to the PA, and then adjusting, is the way I like to do it. If the system is really bassy I may turn the lows on the channel down or off, but that is very rare.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Registered User Freddyfingers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Im glad i found this thread. I have had a few different box’s running into a pa board. I currently have a fishman tone deq. Which costs new about as much as a red eye twin. I found that for some instruments it brings a better sound out, and others not so much. Its also includes reverbs and chorus, which i only use a tad of reverb and i can get that from my board. My question is, how is the red eye, or the others mentioned above different from the fishman? I prefer my mandolin with K and K, as well as my mandola and octave mandolin sound as natural as possible, but the fishman, doesn't sound like the natural instrument. I thought that the type of pickup is limited to what it can produce, which to me they sound boxy. If i could afford to mike everyone up i would, but we are not that good of a band to stand still.
    Its not a backwards guitar.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Orr View Post
    So, you're going to have to forgive me here, but I am embarrassingly ignorant about amplifying sound. You actually bring up a point I've kind've wondered about and feel like I should just know...what is the best path to dial in my sound? Our board is a bare bones analog mixer. It basically has the ability to adjust lows, mids, and highs. My Red Eye lets me adjust the treble...and being a mandolin, I tend to keep it at zero since there is already plenty of treble. Generally speaking, if a board has some basic EQ controls, and the DI box basically has the same controls, does it even matter which controls I use to maybe drop my highs a bit and boost the mids a tad, or are there practical reasons to use one over the other? I realize this is probably a 101 level question for amplifying an instrument, but I really am pretty ignorant about so much of this stuff.
    For me, this is where things get interesting. There is no formula or correct answer here. If you're in the studio, stacking different EQ's (hardware or virtual) is very common. There's also many instances where combinations of signal processing don't necessarily make sense, but if it produces the best tone, then it makes sense.

    The example that comes to mind is what they call the Pultec Low-End Trick, where you boost AND attenuate the low shelf. Sorry, if I am going down a rabbit hole.

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    One of the differences between Red Eye and Fishman is the input impedance. The Fishman is 10 Meg, the Red Eye 1 Meg. The K&K is 1 Meg. I feel the exact match is a better sound. Also the Red Eye has more head room and that is a plus, since a piezo puts out a fair bit of signal.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Red Eye vs. Grace Design Felix or Alix

    'love the Tonedexter, but I wish there was a way to save the output level and the EQ for each patch, similar to a MIDI set up. I use the same JJB pickup on my mandolin and my octave, but the output for the latter is about 40% greater. My theory is that the larger soundboard has greater vibration... It can be awkward playing live and switching instruments.
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