waverly confusion

Oppps! I accidently posted this under the general mandolin area this is probably where this topic should go.

I just now recieved waverlys for my bouzouki, when I put them on I realized that the gear was above the worm gear on my mandolin waverlys aswell as my bouzouki waverlys.Now however the worm gears are in different directions making for a reversed winding on the bouzouki. Is this something that Stew Mac orders automatically for the A style tuning machines? When I called Stew Mac today they told me that it isnt good to reverse wind them, he mentioned absolutely nothing about waverly making it different on the A styles.
Right at first I thought I put them upside down and looked over at my mando and saw that it was a tuner issue.

The other thing that made me uneasy. I specifically asked the associate at time of purchase if I could retro fit different knobs on these tuners simply due to the fact I wasnt decided on the knobs I liked. They said yes, When I recieved them they didnt have the usual screw type knobs. When informing them they told me they dont offer the screw knobs on the A styles. So is this odd statement is true?

heres the mandolin tuning machines

Heres the Bouzouki tuning machines.

[Paul Hostetter]

Hoyt - your terminology is askew. These are bushings:



What you are talking about is the pitch of the worm gears. But what's important is the direction of the rotation of the posts relative to the direction of rotation of the buttons. Look here for more info about this.



Turn that D button counterclockwise, and it should make the post do the same thing whether the worm is above or below the cog. Once again:

No matter which type of gears is on the mandolin (or whatever), the buttons and posts should turn the same way as in this image. If they don't, something is wrong.

The tension collar that holds the Stew-Mac gears together is secured with Loc-Tite. I have never tried this, and the whole idea gives me a headache, but it's vaguely possible that you could disassemble the gears and reassemble them - worms and gears - on opposite plates to relocate the worm gears above the cogs in a way that would make the buttons and posts turn the expected way. You'd need Loc-Tite to anchor the collars, and you'd need a specific spanner wrench to adjust it. Good luck.

[Chris Baird]

I think I tried to figure out if I could reassemble some A-style tuners once as I made a flat top batch that had the holes drilled wrong so that the tuners were on upside down (doh!). I did indeed get a headache and I'm pretty sure that they couldn't be reasembled to turn the other way (at least not on the tuners I had). As I recall the worm would have to be detachable and reversible from the shaft, and neither was the case for me.

p.s. I do think that you have the A-style tuners on upside down. Perhaps they build the a-style waverlys in the modern fashion with the cog below the worm and the F-style in the older fashion.

YES MY TERMONOLIGY IS A BIT OFF.....HAHAHA! WELL ALL I KNOW IS THAT THE GEAR GROVES ARE GOING THE OPPOSITE WAY FROM THE F AND THE A. CAN THIS AFFECT THE TUNERS, AS IN RUIN THEM?

[Chris Baird]

I think that you have them on the wrong way and it probably isn't good for them, it is also not good for your social disposition to type with caps lock on.

[Paul Hostetter]

Amen.

It won't ruin anything. They're just backwards and not working as well as they could if they were the right gears. Twice now I have given you a link to a page that explains this - I wish you'd read it. You have posted this question in umpteen places and you never seem to get the answers that I and others have offered.

[Jim Hilburn]

After Mandofest, Drew and I were heading back to Colorado into a blizzard that shut down I-70 and we ended up stuck in a motel till the road re-opened.
Drews Krishot mandola tuners turned backwards, so we dug into the project to move the worms from one side to the other. We only did one before it became apparent that it doesn't change anything to do this. the plate is 180 opposite from one side to the other, so when you move the worm from one side to the other everything is back in phase. You hve to get reverse-geared tuners.
The problem is the difference between old time gears and modern ones. And the F style headstock. Schaller has made both reverse and non-reverse tuners for F's and you have to pay attention to what your ordering. The modern A set is made so the worm post is above the string post and the string tension is applying force from the gear to the worm.

[Darryl Wolfe]

The Waverly A-style tuners are all designed for installation with the worm above the cog gear. #Otherwise they will turn in the wrong direction. #Note that the A-style tuners do not have screw held buttons, hence the tip-off that the shafts are machined differently.

Stew-Mac will accept special orders for "reverse" A-style tuners. #They simply pick 8 equal length shafts from their F5 style tuners and assemble them in that fashion..incindentally yielding screw held buttons too.

[Paul Hostetter]

Ah, clarity. Thanks, Darryl.