Tennessee Blues - Skaggs and Rice

[stinsc]

I got this CD a few weeks ago and I am awestruck by Skagg's rendition of Tennessee Blues. I started trying to learn it last night and downloaded the tab, and I have picked it out for the most part, but I am still missing that "Monroe" sound that Ricky captures so well. I sound too mechanical and am not grasping that "bluesy" sound. I keep listening to the CD but it has really humbled me, because it makes me realize I am lacking that "feeling" that I hear in Bill's and Ricky's music. I have been playing too many fiddle tunes and not enough BG, I guess.
Does anyone have any advice on how to play this piece with more feeling, or how to capture that Bill Monroe sound?

[AlanN]

Keep the pick moving, play fluid and with a loose pick grip and wrist.

[Spruce]

Attack the hell out of it and make sure to throw in those blue notes...

Actually, I'd like to know how ya'll count the thing after you hit the 5 (E) chord...
I've heard it played several different ways, including by Big Mon himself....

That's a tricky little section....

[evanreilly]

I admit to being unsure of the exact form of the tune. It ain't 'straight', as I hear the versions of it.

[Vincent]

first times I played this with other folks that odd timing would always throw off everyone. I could hear the mandolin part fine, but hadn't realized how crooked it was. stinsc, try playing heavier on every downstroke- forward lean-ish.

[craigmurray]

I am lurking on the cafe while listening to my CD collection on random, and as I opened this thread Tennessee Blues by Phillips Flinner and Grier just came on. A nice coincidence, and without a question my favorite version of that song! This is a tune that I play all the time, but can't get it down. Every version I have is different.

[swampstomper]

It's all in the loose wrist.

[bsimmers]

You might try simply not playing that tune for about 3 days, but listen to it over and over. Then follow the advice already given here. Sometimes it helps to flush out the mechanical stuff and start over with nothing but that blues mandolin stuff in your head.
After you whip it, listen to Duffey's version. A little different, but hot.

[AlanN]

A sleeper version of this is on Jack Tottle's Back Road Mandolin on the Rounder label. Jack plays it pretty straight, but it has the crooked timing.

That's a great record, btw. Has good players, Van Manakis on guitar, Kenny Kosek, plus Jack crosspicks like nobody's business.

[Scotti Adams]

..do what these guys tell you..and just practice, practice, practice.

[picksnbits]

I don't think I've gotten the timing right on a Monroe song yet unless I play along with the original as I learn it. If I listen to the song and then go off and work out what the notes are, play it slowly and then bring it up to speed I may end up with something that sounds okay, but then when I play along with the original I find that something's missing in the timing.

Playing full speed with the recording, getting the right hand going, then adding the notes gets me closer to getting things right.

FWIW,Tennessee Blues was one of the very first songs I learned and I've re-worked and re-learned it several times and still ain't satisfied with it.

[Spruce]

"I don't think I've gotten the timing right on a Monroe song yet unless I play along with the original as I learn it."

Yeah, but what's "the original"?
The problem is that Monroe played his tunes, especially the ones with the crooked gaps, differently in different situations...
TB is one of those....

Rawhide is another, with the weird gap (I call it a "mistake", but we've debated that one) after the first mando solo on the studio version...

Several tunes on "Master of BG" have parts missing or added depending on when the recording was made, EPB being one of them....

So-ooo, it's kinda hard to nail down "the original".... #

[picksnbits]

Yeah, if we wanna get all semantical we should probably say we're learning A Monroe style or the Monroe styles not the Monroe style.

I think I heard Compton play it more than one way in the same session on Bluegrassbox the other day. There is always room for interpretation.

[swampstomper]

It's the same tune in Mon's head, but it comes out differently depending on his artistic mood at the moment. It's like Van Gogh painting the same sunflower 12 (?) times. There is no "original" or "best".

Another example is Dusty Miller where he leaves out a whole part on the Decca recording that he almost always played on stage.

This is one thing that drives old-time musicians crazy when I try to jam with them -- they insist on a "right" way to play the melody (not to mention the one-chord backup). When I try to do like Mon and interpret the tune -- watch out!

[tree]

Yeah, but what's "the original"?
The problem is that Monroe played his tunes, especially the ones with the crooked gaps, differently in different situations...
TB is one of those....

Rawhide is another, with the weird gap (I call it a "mistake", but we've debated that one) after the first mando solo on the studio version...

Several tunes on "Master of BG" have parts missing or added depending on when the recording was made, EPB being one of them....

So-ooo, it's kinda hard to nail down "the original".... #

I love this aspect of Bill Monroe's playing. #He obviously loved the blues, and a LOT of the old blues guys "break time" like this. #I have never been able to tell if it is intentional or not. #I like to think it is - that they just change chords when they feel like changing 'em, and the band had better be ready to follow the leader. #The early Blue Grass Boys really had to be on their toes like that, I think.

I love the early '40s version of this tune, with all the commentary in the background. #It is just plain HOT. #It is fascinating to see Bill play in on the Homespun DVD, too. Definitely different versions, but both of them have the same feel. #The man was a genius.

[jimini_pickit]

I'm still working on the Mon style, but thought I'd let y'all know, if you haven't already got the Ronnie McCoury DVD, get it! He goes over ALOT of the Mon style and blues notes...mentions that Mon used alot of downstrokes in his playing, and that's helped me get 'some' of the Mon sound.

[Peter Hackman]

I am lurking on the cafe while listening to my CD collection on random, and as I opened this thread Tennessee Blues by Phillips Flinner and Grier just came on. A nice coincidence, and without a question my favorite version of that song! This is a tune that I play all the time, but can't get it down. Every version I have is different.

Oddly, I don't like that version at all (and, yes,
that CD went to the waste basket, unlike the
earlier ones). Isn't that the one where
they add "interesting" bass lines? Sometimes,
dressing up a earthy and basic song in fancy
harmonic garb tends to weaken it; makes me think,
why not write your own song instead,
and put your stuff int there, where it all makes sense?

I write "oddly" because I've exposed a couple of
Monroe songs to some hopefully creative abuse.
One is Crossing the Cumberlands where I play an approximation of the banjo part on the mando,
and where I find some possibilites on guitar
by not using a capo, and yet taking advantage
of the open g and d strings. So I AM open
to unexpected uses of this material.

I liked Grisman's treatment of the Moonlight Waltz
although I myself keep the harmony very square
(albeit with lots of runs and inversions).

I believe it was Mahler who said: "interesting is easy,
beautiful is difficult".

[Peter Hackman]

I got this CD a few weeks ago and I am awestruck by Skagg's rendition of Tennessee Blues. I started trying to learn it last night and downloaded the tab, and I have picked it out for the most part, but I am still missing that "Monroe" sound that Ricky captures so well. I sound too mechanical and am not grasping that "bluesy" sound. I keep listening to the CD but it has really humbled me, because it makes me realize I am lacking that "feeling" that I hear in Bill's and Ricky's music. I have been playing too many fiddle tunes and not enough BG, I guess.
Does anyone have any advice on how to play this piece with more feeling, or how to capture that Bill Monroe sound?

Why bother? You didn't live Monroe's life, you don't have
to invent a role for your instrument; you can build on what's gone on before and take it in new directions.

In my BG days I was the only one in my group who dug
Monroe. I believe the others were put off by his singing,
which I PARTICULARLY liked;
they were into groups like Reno-Smiley,
the Dillards, and the Osbornes,
as I recall. What I liked about Monroe was his emphasis of the fiddle and I think I learned more stuff from fiddlers
than mandolin players. For instance, I wanted more
detail and almost no repeated notes, as in
the tunes on Howdy Forrester's Fancy Fiddlin' album.

That determined my approach which also involved fairly
low action. That doesn't preclude downstrokes,
but they will not sound like Monroe.

When I wanted to understand and exploit
Monroe's approach to the blues
I copied the first four bars in BG pt. 1 and took
off from that - these four bars are the only
lick I copied from him! I always
asked myself, what can I do with that, where can I take it?

Today I'm old and not learning many new things, but every time
I pick up the mandolin or guitar I try to do something
I've never heard before.

[chrisgabbard]

I got this CD a few weeks ago and I am awestruck by Skagg's rendition of Tennessee Blues. I started trying to learn it last night and downloaded the tab, and I have picked it out for the most part, but I am still missing that "Monroe" sound that Ricky captures so well. I sound too mechanical and am not grasping that "bluesy" sound. I keep listening to the CD but it has really humbled me, because it makes me realize I am lacking that "feeling" that I hear in Bill's and Ricky's music. I have been playing too many fiddle tunes and not enough BG, I guess.
Does anyone have any advice on how to play this piece with more feeling, or how to capture that Bill Monroe sound?

Does anyone have this tab?

[f5loar]

I can play it pretty fast and clean but my problem is finding a guitar player that can change the chords at the same time I do. But then again come to think of it Monroe had the same problem on the original recording of it.

[mandolirius]

"I don't think I've gotten the timing right on a Monroe song yet unless I play along with the original as I learn it."

Yeah, but what's "the original"?
The problem is that Monroe played his tunes, especially the ones with the crooked gaps, differently in different situations...
TB is one of those....

Rawhide is another, with the weird gap (I call it a "mistake", but we've debated that one) after the first mando solo on the studio version...

Several tunes on "Master of BG" have parts missing or added depending on when the recording was made, EPB being one of them....

So-ooo, it's kinda hard to nail down "the original".... #

I think it's pretty clear in the case of "Tenn. Blues". The original, from the first Bluegrass Boys session in '39/'40 is the original and contains the blueprint, I believe.

[Spruce]

I think it's pretty clear in the case of "Tenn. Blues". The original, from the first Bluegrass Boys session in '39/'40 is the original and contains the blueprint, I believe.

Tell that to Mr. Bill...

[AlanN]

Had not picked TB in a while, ran through it this A.M. Easy to get my tang toungled up, for sure. As f5loar said, need a guitar who can keep up with the changes. Always go back to Jack Tottle (other than Monroe) for a good , solid take on this puppy.

[Raymond E.]

Next time we cross paths we'll pick Tennessee Blues,Mr F5 Loar..been awhile since I've picked it. It's a fun tune to play....Loafer

[re simmers]

Listen to several different versions over and over, then develop your own. For me, the real "emotional" version of this tune is Duffey's.

Bob