Voice Training

[Earl Gamage]

Shaun's post got me thinking about improving my voice. Can anyone recommend a voice training cd?

I really know nothing about singing so it needs to be beginner level.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=57414

[re simmers]

I tried some cd's a while back. But I found a voice teacher just a few years ago and took about a dozen or so lessons. Well worth the money and time. I strongly recommend a voice teacher. Check with a local college & find a voice teacher or some student who is studying voice in a graduate program.

The big difference is this: a voice teacher can hear what you're doing wrong and tell you how to correct it.

Bob

[Tim2723]

I agree with Bob. Not only does a voice teacher hear you, but vocal training is a very 'hands-on' kind of thing. You body is the instrument, and a teacher will physically show you proper posture and muscle control. I'm not sure how useful CDs are for vocal training.

[David Rambo]

Go with a live coach, not a CD. In addition to what has already been said, a vocal teacher will tell you how to pronounce words correctly, including where to put them in your mouth. I have sung Southern Gospel and then gone to barbershop, and have had to relearn pronounciations and mouth and throat positions. I didn't realize that positioning of the word was so important in the different types of music. In choral music, our director taught us that we could even leave sylables out, and the minds of the audience will automatically fill them in, ie Juda__, not Judas. When I listen to tapes I made of our performances, I know it's coming, and I still "hear" the "s." IMHO, only a live teacher is going to help you reach the levels to which you strive. Sorry to be so wordy.

[Tim2723]

David makes some important points. Only a teacher can really show you those things. And remember what was said early in Shawn's thread: If you don't do things right you can actually hurt yourself. Bad mandolin technique can be unlearned with lots of work, but bad vocal technique can ruin your voice. Since you're just starting out, now is the time to learn the right way.

[catmandu2]

What are your aspirations? If you want to sing, do sing; anything you can...nursery rhymes and anything familiar that comes to you, or your favorite songs on the radio, perhaps. Don't wait for an instructor to begin. That's just silly. Enjoy. Through repetition, you'll improve. You can employ the usual musical exercises--scales, intervals and arpeggios--for technical polish.

[billkilpatrick]

i picked up a few helpful hints from a choral teacher but the "just do it" approach worked best for me. keep your throat open, don't sing through your nose, don't strain your voice, don't shout and look for a chorus in your area to sing with.

[Tim2723]

Well, I don't suggest taking a degree from Julliard, but anything more than simply singing in your natural voice really needs some good pointers from an instructor. If you just want to sing for your amusement, fine. The world is filled with singers that can neither be heard nor understood. But if your goal is to perform frequently on stage, sound your best and keep your voice, then get a coach. It doesn't have to cost anything. Your local church choir or glee club will probably have someone with the necessary experience.

[EDIT] Those comments, BTW, aren't directed to anyone in particular, just general observations. The world is full of people who sing beautifully with no professional training, but unfortunately think they can carry that over to an extended performance and hold up all night. They almost always end up in trouble. Singing a few nice tunes is one thing, performing a four to six hour show five times a week is another. As Cat said, it depends on your aspirations, and as Bill said, sometimes the 'just do it' method with a few important tips is OK.

[Coffeecup]

As others have said, there's no real substitute for a live tutor. This site has heaps of information but it too recommends having a teacher.

http://www.your-personal-singing-guide.com/index.html

[re simmers]

When practicing the mandolin, Grisman always said "don't practice mistakes" in his Frets magazine columns. Should singing be approached the same way? If you really don't know what you're doing, and you're not one of the few individuals with a natural gift for singing, wouldn't you just be practicing mistakes? I guess it depends on whether or not you want to see significant improvement. If you're considering the cd's, I assume you are.

Bob

[Jim]

Professional help is often the best way! I found that recording myself really helps with my singing though it almost made me give it up. I found knowing what I sound like to be a big help in getting my voice to sound like I want. I'm sure a vocal coach/trainer/teacher could help me more but such creatures are not available to me. The biggest help from the recording is that it clearly shows me what I don't want to sound like! Then I can try to change it.

[Martian]

You HAVE to take some lessons from a teacher. He/she can see how you sing and if necessary, help you in your weak areas. A cd,tape or whatever could never show you what direction you need to go in. What I have done on two occasions now was to take my off season,(winter) and take lessons from a teacher at a local music store just as if it were a winter bowling league or archery league or whatever. You could consider it like an adult ed. class thing. Only a teacher can assess your talent and lead it to improvement. It is also interesting that both of my teachers told me the same thing, that if I played guitar,and sang, I played two instruments. They are also GREAT confidence builders, which ended up one of my biggest problems. Its hard to speak in public and real hard to sing in public.Most of this would be only my oppinion, but I really believe that the teacher part is a fact.

[GRW3]

DeDe Wyland will be teaching at Camp Bluegrass this July. I took her course last year and it was great.

Her Protege, Chris Sanders, will teach at Kerville in June. I think she is also doing something in the Dallas area. I've heard good things about her.

The cool thing about camp is you can concentrate, no work or life distractions...

Also when you take voice, you don't have to lug cases all over camp...

[Shawn Gambrel]

Here is my girl from north country that noone could hear me on. I re done it and barley strummed with. Tell me what you think with this one?

[Tim2723]

Hi Shawn,

It's sounding better each time, keep up the progress. That's still one heck of a mandolin though, sheeesh!

Do you feel as if you're straining a bit for the highest notes? It sounds like you're singing at the top of your range, and maybe just a bit above it. Give it try lowering the key by a whole step and see if it's more comfortable.

Also, next time you post a vid, give us a little spoken introduction. Doesn't matter what you say, just give us a sample of your speaking voice. There are some necessary comparisons between the speaking and singing voices that are important to understand. Keep at it!

[Earl Gamage]

Great work Shaun. I think you should play and sing at jams and open mics and with friends any time you can. Do you have a band together?

Specifically to the last video, to my ears the mandolin is still louder than your singing. It's hard to look at your own work critically so I can see why you might think you are playing quiter. Just to exaggerate the effect, maybe try playing at half the volume of the last video.

Maybe you will get more feedback on it. Keep in mind, you will have to listen to a lot of advice and kind of mix it up and use the parts that work for you.

[Shawn Gambrel]

Hmm ok i will and also No im the only young person at my school that plays bluegrass and country the rest of em listen to rock and rap.

[doc holiday]

Earl, to answer the question you originally asked...I would recommend two different DVDs.....

Jenny Lester: Vocal Techniques &
Peter Rowan: Lead Singing Bluegrass

They are both really good. Peter R of course is a great singer...love those old Monroe recordings. Jenny is a great fiddler and song-writer. I spent a week in a harmony vocal workshop with her that was just top-notch. Sure, if you can find a local voice teacher that's great, otherwise....lots to be learned from these two DVDs

[Coffeecup]

Hmm ok i will and also No im the only young person at my school that plays bluegrass and country the rest of em listen to rock and rap.

So you're the only one that likes music.

Don't limit yourself to your age group, see what clubs, jams etc are around the place. At the folk club I go to we are mostly 50+ but there is one lovely 17 year old. We love her, she seems to like us - age doesn't matter when making music, we both teach each other something.

[Earl Gamage]

Shaun, coffeecup is right, you can find a lot of good folks out of your age group to play with and you are plenty good enough to give it a go.

Doc, thanks for the recommendations, I ordered the Jenny Lester cd.

To the folks with the just do it approach, I agree and that's where I am now but I think a little education might go a long way towards improvement.

I am going to consider a teacher since most think that's the way to go but I really hate how most of them require signups and monthly dues. Maybe I can find somebody or try the camps. I was hoping to do something before the warm weather outdoor jams start.

[Shawn Gambrel]

Ive looked if there are any bands around here they have a mandolin player.

[Sherry Cadenhead]

I'm considering taking some voice lessons for jamming and have reached out to our church music director. Do you think this could be effective using Zoom?

[mbruno]

Zoom / online vocal lessons are definitely a thing that works. I STRONGLY recommend Francesca at BugByte studios (https://www.bugbytestudios.com/). I took lessons from her for about a year and I'm so grateful I did. I really should be taking lessons again, but now unfortunately is not a great time for that. She is a solid teacher - and I've tried a few.

Couple of added things
Make sure you have a piano - a cheap electric keyboard is fine, but having one is very helpful

Download the apps - there are so many great apps that can help you. There are more for iPhone than Android - but either platform there's a lot of good stuff. My favorite for vocals is the Vocal Pitch Monitor (Android) that displays the note you are singing to the cent so you can really see / hear where you are.

Pick a key and drill intervals - start with just moving up and down the scale, then target the chord tones. For example, in the key of C - sing the note C (Do), then go to C then D back to C (Do, Rey, Do) then C to D to E back to D then C (Do, Rey, Me, Rey, Do) etc etc. After that, sing the 1 3 5 (Do Me So) in random orders (Do So Do, or Me Do So, or So Do Me etc).

[Bill McCall]

A really good app is Erol’s Singer Studio (NFI). Not cheap, but really thorough with all kinds of exercises for whatever level. I knew a bunch of singers who participated in vocal jams who used and recommended it. If you had a voice lesson, you’d find the app mirrors that process. It provides great feedback no matter how pitiful your (my) efforts were, which I found amusing. Erolstudio.com.

[Beanzy]

I've been spending some time using resoursces from here; https://www.becomesingers.com/

definitely worth a look.