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Thread: Advice on sinking pick guard?

  1. #1

    Question Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Hi, I have a problem with the floating pick guard on my Arrow G, which has sunk low enough on the tip (closest to bridge) just barely clearing the top, which is causing a vibration from occasional contact. I tried contacting Paul Lestock via Facebook for a solution but he is busy making awesome products and didn’t respond.

    I have rigged up a suspension which I can lift the pick guard off the top, letting sit overnight, and that works temporarily but the pick guard sinks back down fairly quickly. I am hesitant to block it from below because of pressure on the top and the dampening of sound.

    Anybody have any suggestions other than take it to a tech, which I will do if that becomes the only solution. If I continue my suspension when I not playing, and do that for a couple of weeks, will it eventually hold? Would I need to assist the wood with steam or something (while protecting the top)?

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    I fully admit that I’m no luthier but is it the guard itself that’s sinking/distorting or is it the way it’s mounted? If the latter, exactly how is it attached?

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Is the guard flat or warped, or is it simply sinking down. I would take it off and see if the screws/nails holding it on are bent.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  6. #4

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    I will post a couple more pics. It seems to be straight, just angled down towards body. It is the type that is glued to the back of fretboard (see picture). Not sure what it initially was like, I only started playing last year and previous player has no memory either way. It is 19 years old though.
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  7. #5

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Lol, well fate has intervened and as I was playing it the pickgaurd has fallen off! It will be much easy to steam into the right position now and then hide glue it back on, or it may have been the glue joint all along. Or I might just keep it off.

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    Last edited by Jellwoo; Jul-11-2023 at 1:35pm.

  8. #6
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    I'd probably go with the last option.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

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  10. #7
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    I have never seen one glued on, usually there are screws or nails into the fingerboard.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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  12. #8
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    The suspension strap rig you had hooked up most likely is what led to it falling off.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Looks to me that it was simply glued to the underside of the elevated fretboard extension - never seen one attached that way; probably explains why it failed. Should be easy enough to glue it back with suitable adhesive.

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  16. #10

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    The suspension strap rig you had hooked up most likely is what led to it falling off.
    Most certainly. I am okay with that though because it had gotten to the point I needed it off the top somehow, just didn’t expect it.

  17. #11

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    Looks to me that it was simply glued to the underside of the elevated fretboard extension - never seen one attached that way; probably explains why it failed. Should be easy enough to glue it back with suitable adhesive.

    This was his first of two prototypes, so he may of changed the method in later models. Held up well for 20 years though, and I think you are right about it now being an easy fix if I choose to put it back on.

  18. #12

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    The suspension strap rig you had hooked up most likely is what led to it falling off.
    Leaning that way too. Now the height difference is enough I would have to consciously try to anchor pinky whereas before my pinky would drift to lightly sit on it when I was not paying attention.

  19. #13
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jellwoo View Post
    This was his first of two prototypes, so he may of changed the method in later models. Held up well for 20 years though, and I think you are right about it now being an easy fix if I choose to put it back on.
    Yes but what type of glue was used before? You have to clean that off the pick guard and underneath the fingerboard. And then, how will you clamp it? I would leave it off and adjust your right hand so you don't need a pinky plant.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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  21. #14

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    Yes but what type of glue was used before? You have to clean that off the pick guard and underneath the fingerboard. And then, how will you clamp it? I would leave it off and adjust your right hand so you don't need a pinky plant.
    The glue that attaches it is different from the glue which the two parts of it are glued together with. It has the consistency of shoo goo, that kind of rubberized translucent Gelatin, which leads me to believe it is hide glue. I do have hide glue and clamps so I could try if I go that route. It isn’t the best for that application, but it would be easier to remove if I screw it up. Very much leaning towards leaving off though because I would rather spend time playing than fixing.

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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Just as counterpoint, as a pick guard lover, if it were me I'd put it back on, but I'd make sure that it was mounted higher so that it won't sink back into the top, short of having the pick guard warp...

    I'd first clean off all the old glue from the pick guard mount and from the underside of the fingerboard extension. I'd mask off the mandolin top around where I'd be cleaning up glue from the underside of the extension, to make sure I don't put dings or scratches in the top's finish.

    Then I'd take off a small amount of wood from the upper portion of the pick guard mount with either a small sanding block or a file, removing just enough wood that the pick guard will mount straight, above the top, without any tilting orientation. I'd take off a little wood at a time and check the fit, until I was satisfied that the mount was going to be solid and straight. I'd also be careful to make sure the mount and pick guard was in proper orientation with the fingerboard surfaces.

    Then, I'd decide on the glue to use. I'd look first at hide glue, but hide glue does not always adhere as well to ebony and rosewood as it does to softer woods, so I might check other glues out too. Aside from a lasting mount, the next most important criteria would be how easy the glue is to clean up if I have to re-do it. To clamp it in place, I'd make a spacer of some squeezable synthetic material and put it between the mandolin top and the pick guard mount and the underside of the extension, so it would hold it snugly in place with the proper orientation as the glue was drying.

    I'd also look things over carefully and consider a different, or possibly a more standard method with pins or screws for mounting the pick guard against the fingerboard, although as discussed in another recent thread, the "standard" mounting methods fail too. So I'd probably give the builder's original mounting method, which has lasted 20 years, a serious try first.

    Keep in mind, some pick guards literally have a small piece of foam rubber or dry sponge-like material underneath them, which directly contacts the top and prevents the pick guard from sinking, seemingly without affecting mandolin tone. That might have solved your problem originally.

    Best of luck with this!
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  24. #16
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    The old glue is definitely not hide glue.
    It appears to me to be a white polyvinyl glue, which is not very easy to get rid of.

    If the attachment tab is 1/16" thick or more, I'd pin it with 2 pins, 1910's Gibson style.
    If the tab isn't thick enough, I'd replace it with a 3/8" wide by 1/16" thick reinforcing strip, which is also 1910's Gibson style, and pin it.
    Last edited by rcc56; Jul-11-2023 at 10:40pm.

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  26. #17

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    Just as counterpoint, as a pick guard lover, if it were me I'd put it back on, but I'd make sure that it was mounted higher so that it won't sink back into the top, short of having the pick guard warp...

    Keep in mind, some pick guards literally have a small piece of foam rubber or dry sponge-like material underneath them, which directly contacts the top and prevents the pick guard from sinking, seemingly without affecting mandolin tone. That might have solved your problem originally.

    Best of luck with this!
    Going to save this info and take a good look at it. And it may have initially had one of those pads on it which would explain the low position. I will try the builder again and ask him that. Thank you.

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  28. #18

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    The old glue is definitely not hide glue.
    It appears to me to be a white polyvinyl glue, which is not very easy to get rid of.

    If the attachment tab is 1/16" thick or more, I'd pin it with 2 pins, 1910's Gibson style.
    If the tab isn't thick enough, I'd replace it with a 3/8" wide by 1/16" thick reinforcing strip, which is also 1910's Gibson style, and pin it.
    Hmmm. I googled dried hide glue and it described something close. I really only know framers white glues and I knew it wasn’t that. Thanks for setting me straight.

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  30. #19
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhergert View Post
    Keep in mind, some pick guards literally have a small piece of foam rubber or dry sponge-like material underneath them, which directly contacts the top and prevents the pick guard from sinking, seemingly without affecting mandolin tone. That might have solved your problem originally.
    My SOL has a sagging pickguard, and this is exactly how the problem was solved. A little piece of the same black foam that is between the strings and the tailpiece cover, judiciously placed.
    "To be obsessed with the destination is to remove the focus from where you are." Philip Toshio Sudo, Zen Guitar

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  32. #20
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jellwoo View Post
    Hmmm. I googled dried hide glue and it described something close. I really only know framers white glues and I knew it wasn’t that. Thanks for setting me straight.
    For the record, a thin layer of dried hide glue is nearly transparent, with a faint brown or yellow-brown tint. Thicker layers are brownish, with the transparency and color depth varying depending on the grade of the glue. It does not have any hint of white, such as in the picture in your earlier post. It also dries hard as a rock, and can be removed fairly easily with a good sharp cabinet scraper or chisel. A drop or two of very hot water can aid in removal when it is stubborn.

  33. #21

    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Why no attach the pickguard to the fretboard with two pins, like old Gibson’s.

  34. #22
    Registered User doc holiday's Avatar
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Quote Originally Posted by George Henry View Post
    Why no attach the pickguard to the fretboard with two pins, like old Gibson’s.

    Tom Ellis still does. Works like a charm

  35. #23
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    Will Kimble uses a pin and a screw (or he did on mine). I had a local luthier fit a guard on my Clark GBOM and Austin suggested pins with a friction fit. He did a superb job but said it was somewhat nerve-wracking trying to drill into the edge of a fitted fingerboard. Personally, I’d start with glue and a good clamping and only use pins if that fails.

  36. #24
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    Default Re: Advice on sinking pick guard?

    I have drilled into fingerboards of mandolins to attach a pick guard. I use a longer bit to keep the drill away from the body of the mandolin. It's worth the small investment and much less nerve wracking.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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