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Thread: New Eastman Octave tuners?

  1. #1

    Default New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Have any of you installed new tuners on the Eastman Octave Mandolin? The tuners are of pore quality Once in tune the instrument holds tune fairly well, but sometimes I have to turn the key 1/3 turn to hear a change. Some have suggested Grover A-style 309 tuners,
    but some of the dim. on StewMac web site are different. I can deal with one screw hole being different, but if the bushing dim. are off it could be a problem. I would most likely take it to my luthier to be done. I'm just looking for an improvement not the installation of $500 tuners.
    Thank You!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Sounds suspiciously like the string is binding in the nut slot. So the problem might not be the tuners. Lubricate the nut slot with some graphite first before you think about changing the tuners.
    Peter Coombe - mandolins, mandolas and guitars
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  4. #3
    Registered User tjmangum's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    My Eastman Octave holds tune pretty well. Of course, I'm old and don't hear all that well!
    " Give me some words I can dance to and a melody that rhymes" - Steve Goodman

  5. #4

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Coombe is correct that that effect is string sticking in the nut, but can (less likely) be the post sticking in the bushing, or even more unlikely, a bad gear fit to the post. Easy enough to sort out.

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    Registered User Mike Conner's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter.coombe View Post
    Sounds suspiciously like the string is binding in the nut slot. So the problem might not be the tuners. Lubricate the nut slot with some graphite first before you think about changing the tuners.
    The binding is usually more a problem with the wound strings. As Peter states, and it's easy to do, get a very sharp #2 pencil and rub a little in each nut slot, one string at a time. Spin each tuner a bit before re-installing each string and feel for any binding, etc. without any string load.

    Also, check the screw that holds the capstan gear to the post is snug - if it's a little loose the post can tip in the bushing and bind. A very tiny amount of silicon lubricant between the capstan gear base and the plate can help sometimes.

    These are all pretty simple things to try before replacing the tuners, so perhaps you have already done all this ;-)

    //mike

  7. #6
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    It may also be that the tuners have more backlash than you would like. Does the "delay" in responding that you mentioned happen only when you change direction, i.e. tune down some and then start tuning up, or vice versa? If so, that's backlash, or "slop" in the tuners. It doesn't really affect tuning accuracy because you should always start lower than the desired note and tune up to it. However, it can be annoying. All tuners will have some backlash, but some, like Waverlys, will have far less. I can't speak to the 309s, but I would guess they're better than what Eastman put on.

    If you're changing tuners you probably don't have to change the bushings unless you want to (for example if you prefer the look of different ones). They all function the same, and the tuner posts are pretty much all the same size. Some tuners have longer baseplates, though, so you'd want to make sure they fit on the headstock properly.

  8. #7

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    1/3 of a turn to hear a difference is a lot. Does the pitch jump a big bunch when it finally does move? If so, then it's a sticky nut slot. Andrew's advice about leaving the original bushings is good as tuning posts are universally about 0.250". I read a nightmare post about a fellow who tried to swap out the ping machines on his Eastman guitar only to find out the bushings were glued in, and there was damage to the peghead veneer getting them out. Grover 309s are a very smooth machine, I've used them on several mandolins.

  9. #8

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Thank You to everyone for your input!
    I just installed a new set of D'Addario's to replace the factory strings and I took your advice and put pencil lead in the slots and a drop of silicone on both sides of the tuners. This improved the situation but they still feel like cheap tuners. Unlike the tuners on my Collings. My daddy always said, "you get what you pay for".
    I will hold off on tuner replacement for awhile and see if they improve with age.
    Over all I'm very happy with the instrument. The workmanship is very impressive for its low cost, and the tone and sustain are again, impressive!

    To the Eastman Stringed Instrument Company.......Raise the price $30 and install a higher quality tuner, they will still Sell!!!!

  10. #9
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Rubner A style tuners fit fine. It's what's now on my Eastman OM.

    Besides string slots at the nut, also check at the bridge. Mine needed to be widened out a hair. And that was before switching string gauges.
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  12. #10

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    I just replaced the stock 14:1 tuners on both my Eastman MD-305 and MDO-305 with Grover 309Ns. Bushings are the same size, and didn't need to replaced. Not all of the screw holes lined up, and I needed to drill a couple of new ones. When installed with the worm gear at the top, the top-most screw hole from the original tuners is exposed above the new tuner plate. The difference between the 14:1 stock tuners and the 18:1 Grovers is pretty substantial (for the better). Hope that helps.

  13. #11
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Mine are doing the same thing as others have described. What it looks like to me is the tuning shaft is bent so during about 180deg of rotation the gears don’t contact one another. Also like has been said, we get what we pay for but the rest of the instrument seems good and it sounds really good.

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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Something else to consider ... contact Eastman.

    Eastman support amazes me, although I bought my MD305 mandolin used. Various threads have cited MD305s for years due to difficult tuners. My recollection is that Eastman uses better tuners on their higher-end models. Both the MD305 and MD305 Octave are no-frills "entry-level" models, after all.

    In fact, Eastman offered to replace my mando tuners at no charge. Instead, I removed the screws on the back and dropped in some graphite powder, which improved tuning quite nicely.

    Suggestion: ALWAYS tell the manufacturer. Enough respectful complaints from the mandolinist world would stir Eastman to improve tuners on MD305 models.

    CHUCKLE OF THE DAY: MandoPiper1’s comment that his Eastman had cheap tuners, “Unlike the tuners on my Collings.”

    No offense intended, dear friend, this case of “you get what you pay for” may be the understatement of the century.

    My other mandolin also is a Collings, bought back when employed, before pricey divorce and retirement. With what was paid about eight years ago for the Collings mandolin (a sweet-voiced beauty, MF5 O Honey Amber), I could now buy 10 Eastman octave mandolins with plenty left over for date night.

    Agree completely with MandoPiper1’s astute suggestion, “Raise the price $30 and install a higher quality tuner.” Spot on!

  15. #13

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Something I noticed on my Eastman was the tuner shaft didn’t fit snugly into the bushing. Close inspection, revealed a tight fit on the nut side but a gap on the other side. A little bit of Tri-flow on the bushing and other wear surfaces seemed to do the trick. I’d recommend putting a very small amount of Tri-flow in a bottle cal and use a tooth pic to administer the lubricant. Don’t use the applicator tube, you’ll get way too much and make a slippery mess!

  16. #14

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by MandoPiper1 View Post
    To the Eastman Stringed Instrument Company.......Raise the price $30 and install a higher quality tuner, they will still Sell!!!!
    I don’t remember the formula, but it would cost Eastman more to use a different tuner than you’d think. It would also bump the price of the instrument into a bracket that many may not pay, and it’s likely that the overwhelming majority of buyers are fine with the stock tuners.
    Soliver arm rested and Tone-Garded Northfield Model M with D’Addario NB 11.5-41, picked with a Wegen Bluegrass 1.4

  17. #15

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Guitar repairman (who plays mandocello) with over 40 years at the bench. It's almost never the tuning machine, but letting a competent and experienced luthier is never a bad idea.

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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by MediumMando5722 View Post
    I don’t remember the formula, but it would cost Eastman more to use a different tuner than you’d think. It would also bump the price of the instrument into a bracket that many may not pay, and it’s likely that the overwhelming majority of buyers are fine with the stock tuners.
    I just noodle around with my Eastman. Stock tuners are fine. I was also fortunate enough to find one a few years ago that was very inexpensive. I probably wouldn’t buy one at today’s prices.

    For anything serious I have a Clark GBOM.

  19. #17

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    So, after I lubed the tuners on my Eastman 315, it worked pretty well. Not great. I finally got around to changing the strings wholesale. This gave me a chance to really inspect the tuners and their operation. Basically, they are junk. Some are stiff , others floppy and loose. A few work well, others bind. I believe the culprit is the metal base plate. You can visibly see the bent metal that holds the worm gears are uneven and crooked. I contemplated trying to bend it into shape and decided my time was better spent practicing. So, I ordered some Grovers. Really a shame they don’t have better quality control, they are 95% of the way there. A little tighter tolerance and they would probably be fine.

  20. #18
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    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pgambon View Post
    ... I believe the culprit is the metal base plate. You can visibly see the bent metal that holds the worm gears are uneven and crooked.
    Some otherwise decent tuners have their welded-on bits projecting thru the back of the baseplate, causing the uneveness that you describe. I've had success with using a hand-held drill bit to ream out divots (on the back of the headstock) for those nubs to project into, allowing the plate to lie flat against the wood.

    "While you're in there", you might consider this excellent advise, courtesy of the late Cafe member Paul Hostetter, whose family has generously maintained his website:
    http://www.lutherie.net/tuner.maintenance.html

    And yes, Tri-Flow has become my bestest friend - especially on sticky storm windows!
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  21. #19

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Actually, I’m referring to the part of the base plate that is bent up to hold the worm gears. To be fair, perhaps it was a bad run. Others may have a better experience. Just today my Grovers arrived. Visually they look to be miles better.

  22. #20

    Default Re: New Eastman Octave tuners?

    Just to clear the air and get down to facts about Eastman's mandolin tuners: According to the Eastman rep I talked to over the past day or two Eastman uses factory-direct Proline tuners on its mandolin products. They used to use Pingwell. They have never used Schallers. I was pleasantly surprised at how fast customer service responded to my questions. Eastman is clearly a competitive acoustic instrument company. I bought a used Eastman octave mandolin partly because I can't afford a Weber and was not impressed with Gold Tone's nor the other models. I found the Eastman octave to be a little too bright and thin (most Chinese-made mandolins sound tinny) BUT when I replaced the strings with a heavier gauge that Eastman uses I was very pleased. 14-24-34-49. I "cannabilized" these strings from a combination of sets of D'Addario mandola and mandolin strings.

    Unfortunately D'Addario's octave mandolin set is too light and doesn't bring out maximum tone. So I recommend the gauges used by Eastman on its octave mandolins.

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