Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
I remember when just mentioning Ricky Skaggs could cause a small war to break out. I'll take this over that.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
About two months after I built my first mandolin, circa 1998, I was at another well known builder's shop. After about an hour, he causally mentioned, "Clear that junk out from under the bench over there and pull out that old case. You should check out what is inside before you go. You'll probably never get another chance in this lifetime."
For the rest of the afternoon I was able to play, measure, 'hack, and completely nerd out on the one and only Lloyd Loar signed Griffith A5. It had everything I ever needed or wanted in a mandolin and was wrapped in a nice clean package that was easy to build and had a HUGE voice.
Since that day, I've played hundreds of great mandolins including about 30 other Loars and I've built 131 mandolins: As, Fs, and beyond.
Regardless of shape, design, or aperture, I've wished that every single mandolin I made would sound like the Griffith A5.
Last edited by j. condino; Oct-09-2020 at 10:56pm.
The first time I spent a lot of time playing an F style the points bothered me more than I expected. I assumed it would be handy to have the point help rest the instrument on my leg. I was in shorts and not playing with a strap so I get what you're saying some. After weeks of playing it I never thought about it much.
F style may be pointy and more costly but it's definitely the prettier sister. I'd still rather have two teriffic A5s over one teriffic F5 and the math still says I can.
Many years ago at Bass Mtn. festival, a guy had an F-5, built without the 2 points. It was made by one of the NC builders, Bob Shue perhaps. It was lighter than a typical F-5, with very smooth and rounded lines to the body. Took a bit getting used to, but it had its appeal.
Gibson got pretty close in the 30's with one of their second line mandolins the Cromwell GM-6 but they left the front point and used the Gumby scroll.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Sblock, you're probably right that more time would help, but I cannot afford that luxury, and I don't really have reason to.
When sitting, I hold the mandolin between my legs, with the neck at about 45° which I find comfortable. I hold it parallel to the line of my shoulders, and with the body centered. With all of those parameters met, the lower point sits directly between my legs, lending absolutely no aid to anything. When I do let the instrument slip into a position where the point holds the neck up, it either is uncomfortable to play or to hold.
The tone guard was mainly a problem because I was sitting with the instrument for 30+ minutes, and at some point I started slouching. But even when I was sitting up, I didn't like how it felt, or how it munched my shirt. I doubt one will ever grace an instrument that I own.
All that said, I still love how Fs look, and would totally buy one if it really stood up and spoke to me. But I like the looks of As about as much, and when shopping, they're what I'll look for because you get more bang for your buck
Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
Other instruments: way too many, and yet, not nearly enough.
My blog: https://theoffgridmusician.music.blog/
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChF...yWuaTrtB4YORAg
My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/africanbanjogunnar/
Free backing tracks:
https://backingtrackers.wordpress.com/
I absolutely love F style mandolins.
And the more people that agree with me the more the price of A style mandolins will drop. Thank you very much, I don’t mind if I do!
How about:
- Metronomes
- Electrical amplification
- And that often asked question.
I have a large collection of valuable mandolins, a certain number of which are F style.
My (attractive) neighbour is going away for a couple of months and wants to leave me her/his huge dog that, apart from being bred to kill anything that moves, including itself, also has serious psycho/attitude issues and in 3 days and four hours will be off his meds.
-while practicing tunes on my mandolin, should I carry a gun?
Last edited by Simon DS; Oct-10-2020 at 8:16am.
Here's a thought. What if the mandolin that Bill Monroe saw hanging in a barbershop window had been the Ms. Griffith Loar? One. They only made one.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Interesting question.
The universe as we know it would be a vastly different place no matter how that situation played out. With only that one scroll-free Loar floating around out there, massive amounts of capitol would surely have been directed to other pursuits.
And imagine the digital bandwidth never used or needed to support the discussions on this Forum. Or...with no place to tie on the bailing twine, he may have just left it hanging there and taken up the trombone.
"I play BG so that's what I can talk intelligently about." A line I loved and pirated from Mandoplumb
I only owned A styles for 10 years or so after first taking up the mandolin. Nothing wrong with that as there are plenty of amazing instruments to choose from. A few years ago I finally purchased an F5 style. I struggled with how to hold it for awhile and things felt awkward. I even thought I might just not be an F style kind of guy an might have to sell, but after a bit of research and practice I found ways of holding that felt comfortable and now it is my number one mandolin. Not because it is an F style but because of its tone and incredible responsiveness. I would have been just as happy with an A but I do love the look of it.
2014 AL Smart F5
1988 Givens A
1921 Gibson A
2009 Peter Zwinakis Selmer Guitar
2002 Martin D-18V
1999 Huss and Dalton CM Custom
Several Old Fiddles
Tone guard is seldom used in many years experience so it's an option but I'd forget that. I've always loved the shape thst Gibson created but I agree that playing sitting down has the point sticking in my leg. I actually had Barry Kratzer make me an F4 without the bottom point. Looks just as good.
I've often thought of just playing an A5 but I love my Northfield Big Mon F5 so much that I just can;t make that move. I even tried an Ellis A5 recently but it just fell short of the Big Mon. The Ellis was a great mandolin but I've love to hear one made like the Big Mon. i.e. 5% bigger. You just get a little more.
I always tell myself that my primary interest is tone and playability. My very first Gibson was a whiteface A3. I didn't like the way it looked but it was the best-sounding mandolin on the wall at Mandolin Brothers circa 1978. So I do have to confess that the aesthetics does come into play with an instrument: fine woods, lovely delicate finish, small cosmetic flourishes, scrolls, points, fancy bindings, doodads, etc.
To get back to the original subject: I don't have any problem F vs. A in holding or playing those two styles of mandolin. I guess it just depends on how you play and what you are used to. OTOH I have also had to adapt to playing bowlbacks but was able to do so after some time. The instrument that I think is very difficult to work out comfortable positioning is the violin. I know, Gunnar, you also play violin so I wonder how you worked out your playing on that instrument. Over the years i have been playing i have had to find the most comfortable chin- and shoulder-rest that works with my particular physique.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
It's a beautiful design, isn't it? I've only played a few Fs, so not sure about how comfortable it would be to own one. Should have bought one of John Monteleone's F5s back when he was selling them for $1850, and I probably would have adjusted by now.
The violin was my very first instrument--I think I was 8 when I first picked one up. It never occurred to me to consider whether holding it was comfortable. So maybe that's the "strangeness" scale against which I would measure the playing position of any other instrument.
I think that there is nothing inherent in the F style body that makes it harder to hold comfortably. As to the beauty of the design, I agree, but as i described, it took a some experience and context for me to appreciate it.
Not an F or an Eh? I like My Hodson D'jangolin .. http://www.emando.com/builders_inactive/Hodson.htm ..
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
My favorite design of all times is the asymmetrical two point mandolin.
I actually had very little trouble adjusting to playing fiddle, I did use a folded cloth shoulder rest at first, but once I got a full size I play with no shoulder rest, and I don't have any trouble.
I'm sure the same would be true with an F style mando, but the why is lacking, as A styles are so much more affordable, and I like the look just as well
Mandolin: Kentucky KM150
Other instruments: way too many, and yet, not nearly enough.
My blog: https://theoffgridmusician.music.blog/
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChF...yWuaTrtB4YORAg
My Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/africanbanjogunnar/
Free backing tracks:
https://backingtrackers.wordpress.com/
Just one guy's opinion
www.guitarfish.net
Robert Johnson's mother, describing blues musicians:
"I never did have no trouble with him until he got big enough to be round with bigger boys and off from home. Then he used to follow all these harp blowers, mandoleen (sic) and guitar players."
Lomax, Alan, The Land where The Blues Began, NY: Pantheon, 1993, p.14.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
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