Sounds like you're talking about "lower interval limits." It's an arranging term that refers to how low you can play two notes, before the distance (interval) between them starts sounding too muddy to be perceived as a harmonic interval. That's subjective of course, but you can think of LILs as a general guideline about how the ear perceives low intervals. LILs are really helpful when applied to understanding how mandocello chords work.
Here's a decent explanation of the topic. Notice around 2:20, there's a general guideline that the D (open string on cello) is approximately the lowest note which should generally be used as the higher of two notes -- if you want the two notes together to sound clear, and not muddy. Putting that idea on the cello, it makes sense that the open D string sounds good with any note below it on the G string. But below that, most intervals can get muddy-sounding.
Exactly -- In that chord the low C, sounding as part of an F chord, forms an interval of a major 6th with the next-higher note, which is A -- quite a bit lower than the LIL for a major 6th. Of course there are times that can work, and you have to decide for yourself when it sounds good or when it's not working. But for me, I generally don't use the low C at all, unless it's by itself, or perhaps sounding with notes on the other courses, fret 7 or higher.Thanks a lot August! I have a lot of busy work to do this morning then I'm going to play around with your chart. I noticed on your F-chord that you have decided to deaden or not play the open C-course. The C is the V note but I imagine you are doing that because to your ear it sounds better with just AFC rather than CAFC?
Last edited by August Watters; Oct-22-2020 at 7:34pm.
Exploring Classical Mandolin (Berklee Press, 2015)
Progressive Melodies for Mandocello (KDP, 2019) (2nd ed. 2022)
New Solos for Classical Mandolin (Hal Leonard Press, 2020)
2021 guest artist, mandocello: Classical Mandolin Society of America
I have a lot of material and topics ready for my CMSA Mandocello Hangout session, but one theme will be mandolin "things" that do not transfer to the mandocello. This chording thing is clearly one such issue: Not just the larger, longer, wider neck and body, but the complications of lower sounds. Thanks to all the people posting here and other threads for suggestions and questions--and for helping feed the growing interest in this instrument.
If you are not a CMSA member, I urge you to join and register for the event: Mandocello and liuto cantabile master Fabio Giudice will be answering some of these questions, and a bunch of us will be performing all-mandocello music. And--like August--Fabio and I are trying to promote the mandocello on its own terms--as a solo instrument.
Thanks Jim! I hope some of that good stuff will be captured in a video format --- what a great YouTube series it would be.
My original interest was to use to accompany vocal efforts. The big problem with that (aside from my baritone/bass voice range) is that with ease you can make a mandocello can sound like a approaching train and it can be a challenge projecting your voice over that "wall of sound".
Good luck on you conference!
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
Also a baritone, although I was a vocal major and can extend my range a bit. I suggest realistically not trying to use the MC on every song--I mostly use mandolin (with a guitar-fiddle-bass group) and some guitar. But it does work (for me) on songs where you sing a line and have a little musical figure or echo before the next phrase is sung.
A suggestion that fits the instrument and vocal back-up is, depending on the song, light strum or arpeggio on the sung lines, and a bass run on the little break between lines. In general, you are wise to avoid the wall of sound when actually singing--maybe as a filler between verses or dramatic end. Also, a song that has a distinctive figure in the bass: It is the absolutely perfect instrument for Roy Orbison's Pretty Woman.
The CMSA stuff will be videoed, but will be available only to convention-registered members. A lot of work and expense goes into organizing and hosting these events, and bringing in world class professional players. The topic of travel with the big mandocello has come up, so this year's online event is a great time to join from home.
Rules are made to be broken
There's a lad on the UK folk scene called Thom Ashworth - he mostly sings trad songs with just his bass guitar for accompaniment... so 'cello doesn't seem too much of a stretch to use heavily for the right voice.
Couldn't tell you what register he sings in - if you find it let me know!
My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers
Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
My band's website
Thom Ashworh has a couple of videos up... here is one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGOqOVxPMSU
Yeah--that would work! But you do need a strong voice--like his. Great song & sound.
good song, good playing, good voice, good looking
not that I'm jealous
My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers
Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
My band's website
Bernie
____
Due to current budgetary restrictions the light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off -- sorry about the inconvenience.
Well someone's gotta. We're too 'party' as a band. He was on before us at a folk festival last year. Really enjoyed his set.
My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers
Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
My band's website
i have been working on william g. leavitt's method since the second lockdown (nov. 2020) for mandocello. I learned a lot from it.
maybe it helps:
https://youtu.be/gy5cknBZd1o
Greetings from Germany
Thanks for sharing this Bernie. I just got a mandocello that this will help me tremendously. I have loved the sound of the mandocello (especially with Mike Marshall playing for years) and my wife finally surprised with one.
It is amazing how much my brain has to work on translating mandolin to mandocello (of course I've only had my mandocello for less than 24 hours)
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