Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
The substantial wear on the frets and neck show that this has been played a great deal. The floral design is identical to the Greek lute. Same artist I think. I think this is original and from the same luthier as the Greek instrument and although the machine heads and bridge and nut look as if the have been replaced, the format, I believe is original and designed to be used. I will probably string it as discussed earlier and try to play it. I was concerned that it might be a historic instrument and maybe I should not work on it further.
It might very well be a historic instrument just not in the US. If you're comfortable with sending a picture I'd send them to the Museum that the image you found was from in Greece. My take on what I think has happened thus far is that I think it originally had friction tuner pegs and a different tailpiece and bridge. Someplace along the line someone decided they'd rather have machine heads and did some alligator dentistry to get them on on there. They may come back and tell you it's not Greek. I'd go that route first. If it has historical significance in another country you should attempt to find that out.
Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Nov-04-2020 at 7:08pm. Reason: Fixed typo. I'm fluent in typo.
"It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
--M. Stillion
"Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
--J. Garber
Yup, that makes sense. I will contact them and see what they have to say. I’ll update ASAP.
It didn't work on my iPhone this morning—it kept going to the homepage of Alamy site. Now it goes to the right page. I just found it by a search and posted a screen shot.
Actually the bowl of the OP instrument does look like it might be of Greek construction.
Mike L: can you post some measurements? Is this longer scale than a mandolin or not?
Last edited by Jim Garber; Nov-04-2020 at 11:30pm.
Jim
My Stream on Soundcloud
19th Century Tunes
Playing lately:
1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1
The soundboard inside the soundboard is what confuses me the most about this instrument.
Could be Mike...but it also could be pre-existing fret and neck wear from before it was joined to that particular body. And why is the paint not worn the same way as the frets?
This is what puzzles me. I've seen a lot of vintage ethnic lutes and I've never seen anything quite like this.
And I could be wrong and this is a single-maker as-is item, just not familiar to me.
Thanks to the member who brought this thread to my attention. I've not been on mandolincafe for a while. Anyway, here's my thoughts...
The picture above is a lavta (in Turkish) AKA politiko laoto (in Greek), which this is very unliklely to be as those have 7 nylon/gut strings in 4 courses (lowest single like an oud) and a neck with a whole octave's worth of microtonal tied frets. This has 14 steel ones and would have long ago collapsed if it was only built for 7 nylon ones. It also has fixed metal frets with western intervals joining the body at the 10th fret, a carved body (vs the constructed bowl of a lavta) and 5 courses.
The bridge and nut look like they are gut for 5 courses. My initial thought was some kind of mandriola until I noticed the 5 courses. Also of note is that it lacks the canted soundboard. I also thought it might be an altered Greek baglama or tamburitza, but the neck and fingerboard are shorter and far wider than these would usually be.
A few other options:
* It could indeed be a mandriola which has been altered for 5 courses, or a custom extended range version with 5 courses.
* It could be an unusual member of the charango family with steel strings and a less guitar-like shape.
* It could be a vihuela de conchero. These are bowl-backed instruments used in Native American festivals in Mexico. They traditionally were made of arrmadillo shells but nowadays usually use wooden carved bodies. They can have 4 (mandolina de conchero), 5 (vihuela de conchero) or 6 (guitarra de conchero) courses, and often will have widely varying numbers of strings in each course. They have a lute-like shape unlike the charangos with their usual more guitar-like shape, and almost always use steel strings.
* It could be an unusual member of the south American bandurria family. These would usually however have only 4 courses.
* It could be an unusual member of the Philippine bandurria family. These would usually however have 6 courses.
* It's a custom or original design.
I am a luthier specialising in historical and world stringed instruments. You can see more info at my website.
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