Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

  1. #1

    Default Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    I have a very unique piece of canary wood I was considering doing a build from. I have never built a mandolin, but I have built a couple acoustic guitars. I have done some practice carving on a top and it came fairly naturally to me. This piece is a one of a kind and I think it would make a beautiful back. There is not much information on the internet regarding canary wood for instruments. Overall, I read that it is easy to work and has good tonal properties. Does anyone have information regarding canary wood? Does the grain direction of the wood seem problematic for a back? I'd appreciate any and all feedback!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Canarywood.jpg 
Views:	259 
Size:	502.4 KB 
ID:	189647

  2. #2
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    A few things:
    -You might get better responses in the builder's section.
    -You would be doing yourself a favor by building an "A" or other simpler design for your first mandolin, rather than an F5.
    -For a first build it is better to use standard materials, standard design and standard processes and learn from that before moving on. You then have a basis for comparison when evaluating your finished instrument. With an unusual wood in the mix, there is no good way to completely differentiate what contribution to sound is from the exotic wood and what contribution is from your build decisions.
    -Unless there is something about the canary wood that indicates that it would be a particularly good back wood, what is the reason for using it?
    -If the reason for using it is just novelty, or "I have it, I might as well sue it!" perhaps it would be better to build a more standard mandolin first and save the exotic wood for a future project.

    Now, with all the practical advice out of the way, I see no reason not to use the wood for a mandolin as long as it is reasonably stable, hard/dense, and glues well. I'm not familiar with canary wood and it's working characteristics, but some oily/resinous woods can be difficult to glue, and glue is what holds mandolins together.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sunburst For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Information for canary wood on wood-database.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  5. #4
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Canary wood is commonly used in the boutique steel string guitar world. With any non-traditional choice, you are on your own for figuring it out.

    Using comparative analysis with traditional woods like maple for things like density, mass, speed of sound, radiation ratio, and young's modulus will give you a methodical way to adjust the parameters.

    John's suggestion of building an A5 first is very good.

    Beware of another health hazard from building out of this nontraditional material: your head will ache constantly from listening to all the internet whiners crying,"....but Bill's mandolin wasn't canary wood...."
    Last edited by j. condino; Nov-05-2020 at 12:12pm.
    www.condino.com

    Crafted by hand in a workshop powered by the sun.

  6. The following members say thank you to j. condino for this post:


  7. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Edmonds, WA
    Posts
    446

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    I'm pretty sure no instrument builder, ever, said their first instrument was as good as their subsequent instruments. But I just searched for prices on canary wood and it doesn't look like it's rare or valuable. I'd build a first mandolin from inexpensive wood and then go to town with the canary wood.

    But with no building skills or tools, I would probably give the canary wood to someone better-equipped! :-)

    Rob

  8. #6
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    That simple grain canary wood will be a lot easier to carve by hand than complex interlocking grain curly maple for a novice....
    www.condino.com

    Crafted by hand in a workshop powered by the sun.

  9. The following members say thank you to j. condino for this post:


  10. #7
    Registered User mtucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles CA
    Posts
    1,500

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Kendrick makes great amps in Austin TX and as an option and at a premium offers a canary cabinet/enclosure, supposedly for its high resonant quality. Yellow pine is used on cabinets for the same reason. I’ve never test driven one nor have I heard of using canary on an acoustic stringed instrument but that’s not saying it hasn’t been or isn’t done.

  11. #8
    Ursus Mandolinus Fretbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Copperhead Road
    Posts
    3,136

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayden Hofmeister View Post
    I'd appreciate any and all feedback!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Canarywood.jpg 
Views:	259 
Size:	502.4 KB 
ID:	189647
    Wipe down any joint surfaces with acetone before gluing to prevent oils contaminating the joint.
    But Amsterdam was always good for grieving
    And London never fails to leave me blue
    And Paris never was my kinda town
    So I walked around with the Ft. Worth Blues

  12. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    S.W. Wisconsin
    Posts
    7,507

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by mtucker View Post
    Kendrick makes great amps in Austin TX and as an option and at a premium offers a canary cabinet/enclosure, supposedly for its high resonant quality. Yellow pine is used on cabinets for the same reason. I’ve never test driven one nor have I heard of using canary on an acoustic stringed instrument but that’s not saying it hasn’t been or isn’t done.
    Not sure about the resonance, but plywood and particle wood cabinets are harsher sounding and heavier. It is for the warmer sound that pine is used. Back in the day it was cheap, now it is for the quality of sound. Yes the resonance plays a part in the sound. It doesn't simply project it like a speaker cabinet for a stereo. There the particle board is preferable for not coloring the sound and projecting it.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  13. #10
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Fretbear View Post
    Wipe down any joint surfaces with acetone before gluing to prevent oils contaminating the joint.
    There is a lot of controversy on this statement within the woodworking community. Many believe that wiping it down first will actually cause more oils to pull to the surface of the wood. There are multiple conflicting studies and published articles.

    I would suggest that you do a few test samples of different methods and different glues, all tested to failure, to determine the best method for your intended use. My first choice would be a fresh cut, warm both surfaces to approx. 110, degrees F, and then use traditional hot hot hide glue. YMMV...
    www.condino.com

    Crafted by hand in a workshop powered by the sun.

  14. #11
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    One of the most important things for a glue joint is having freshly prepared surfaces. For oily/resinous woods I've seen many sources say to glue within 15 minutes of making the surface. Sometimes that means gluing as soon as possible after cutting the glue surface, sometimes it means a quick scraping or sanding to refresh the surface. That method is not controversial like wiping down with solvent, and there is a scientific explanation to back up it's validity. (I don't feel like taking the time to once again explain what goes on, as I understand it, right now.)

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sunburst For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,563

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayden Hofmeister View Post
    I have a very unique piece of canary wood I was considering doing a build from. I have never built a mandolin, but I have built a couple acoustic guitars. I have done some practice carving on a top and it came fairly naturally to me. This piece is a one of a kind and I think it would make a beautiful back. There is not much information on the internet regarding canary wood for instruments. Overall, I read that it is easy to work and has good tonal properties. Does anyone have information regarding canary wood? Does the grain direction of the wood seem problematic for a back? I'd appreciate any and all feedback!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Canarywood.jpg 
Views:	259 
Size:	502.4 KB 
ID:	189647
    Beautiful wood !

  17. The following members say thank you to yankees1 for this post:


  18. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Conneaut Lake, PA
    Posts
    4,147

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    I don’t understand why so much attention on preparing this wood for glueing. The Wood Database does not mentions it being oily and in facts states that it “glues well”. Judging by its specs I would think it should make a goo tone wood.
    Don

    2016 Weber Custom Bitterroot F
    2011 Weber Bitterroot A
    1974 Martin Style A

  19. The following members say thank you to multidon for this post:


  20. #14
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    15,863

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by multidon View Post
    I don’t understand why so much attention on preparing this wood for glueing...
    I don't really either. I mentioned it in my first post, but I also said that I'm not familiar with canarywood. It was simply a suggestion for the OP to check that out before gluing the wood. That was before I consulted the Wood Database (which I did just before the link was posted).
    From there it just sort of took off, but I felt that I needed to post again for those who will take info from this thread about gluing oily/resinous wood.

  21. The following members say thank you to sunburst for this post:


  22. #15

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Thanks everyone for the responses! They have been very helpful so far.

  23. #16

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by sunburst View Post
    A few things:
    -You might get better responses in the builder's section.
    -You would be doing yourself a favor by building an "A" or other simpler design for your first mandolin, rather than an F5.
    -For a first build it is better to use standard materials, standard design and standard processes and learn from that before moving on. You then have a basis for comparison when evaluating your finished instrument. With an unusual wood in the mix, there is no good way to completely differentiate what contribution to sound is from the exotic wood and what contribution is from your build decisions.
    -Unless there is something about the canary wood that indicates that it would be a particularly good back wood, what is the reason for using it?
    -If the reason for using it is just novelty, or "I have it, I might as well sue it!" perhaps it would be better to build a more standard mandolin first and save the exotic wood for a future project.

    Now, with all the practical advice out of the way, I see no reason not to use the wood for a mandolin as long as it is reasonably stable, hard/dense, and glues well. I'm not familiar with canary wood and it's working characteristics, but some oily/resinous woods can be difficult to glue, and glue is what holds mandolins together.
    Thanks for the great feedback! After some more research I have decided that it would be best to take your advice and start with a simpler build. I am considering a two point mandolin similar to the Lyon and Healy style B mandolin. I've done some tests with gluing the canary wood using Titebond original and it seems to be working great. I tried one using solvent and one without and both were strong enough for the wood to break outside the seam.

  24. #17

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    I have built a few F5s and that's what I started with. Crazy I know but I learned a lot about building and carving but not a damn thing about tone. My next mandolin will be a plane Jane A5 and I don't plan on building another F5 until I get the tone that I'm after. The build should go much much faster and I may be able to build enough of them to get some idea of what I'm doing. That's my plan and I may stick to it :-)
    Richard Hutchings

  25. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dick Hutchings For This Useful Post:


  26. #18
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Asheville, NC
    Posts
    2,758

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Hutchings View Post
    I have built a few F5s and that's what I started with. Crazy I know but I learned a lot about building and carving but not a damn thing about tone. My next mandolin will be a plane Jane A5 and I don't plan on building another F5 until I get the tone that I'm after. The build should go much much faster and I may be able to build enough of them to get some idea of what I'm doing. That's my plan and I may stick to it :-)
    Perhaps the best response I've read all year!
    www.condino.com

    Crafted by hand in a workshop powered by the sun.

  27. #19

    Default Re: Exotic Canary Wood F5 Back

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Hutchings View Post
    I have built a few F5s and that's what I started with. Crazy I know but I learned a lot about building and carving but not a damn thing about tone. My next mandolin will be a plane Jane A5 and I don't plan on building another F5 until I get the tone that I'm after. The build should go much much faster and I may be able to build enough of them to get some idea of what I'm doing. That's my plan and I may stick to it :-)
    This is an extremely helpful post. Theres a lot to learn here from your experience. I think it is a great idea to start with a simpler build to begin to understand tone... after all, it is a musical instrument (it's easy to get distracted by the wonderful aesthetics of the mandolin). Thanks for sharing!

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •