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Thread: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

  1. #1

    Default In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    I am looking for a mandolin maker/luthier who is willing to take on a repair project. I have a Peter White mandolin and when he saw the photos he suggested I post to this forum to find someone to work on it. He suggested:

    "The top is probably sinking. The top needs to be removed and pressed back into the proper arching. In violins retirees make a plaster cast and place the top into this cast and put warm sandbags onto the issued of the top to make the arch of the top back to it’s origin it’s original height."

    If there is a way to get it playing again without doing something that drastic, I am all for that as well. It played for a long time looking like it does now so perhaps there are other options. Over the past month as the temperature changed, the strings slowly approached the frets until it stopped working.

    I live in Montreal, QC. Ideally if there is anyone within driving distance that is interested please let me know. Please feel free to forward this request or recommend someone for me to contact.

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  2. #2
    Teacher, repair person
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    That top is severely distorted. I do not believe that it is possible to execute a reliable repair without disassembling the instrument. Perhaps it could be re-arched and re-braced, but I would have concerns about the long term reliability of such a repair. It might be necessary to replace the top.

    Perhaps it would be worth your while to contact Oliver Apitius. Although he may have too full a schedule to repair the instrument, he may know of a Canadian luthier who is up to the job. If he cannot recommend someone, you might try getting in touch with the classical violin community in Montreal. They may know of someone who can handle the job. This is probably not a good time to ship an instrument over any international borders.

    In the mean time, I recommend that you loosen the strings.

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  4. #3
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    I've "sandbagged" tops before with reasonably good results, but this looks like a case for a new top to me.
    If it was a more-or-less valuable old instrument, where originality is important to value (the case for the ones I've re-shaped), that would be one thing, but even in those cases a new top is a better (and easier, truth be known) repair for function.

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  6. #4
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    Unless you can own up to leaving it in the trunk of a car during the hot days of summer or something similar, that is not normal fatigue. It should be going back to the person who built it for warranty work.

    Nobody that I know would take on someone else's mess like that. Oliver and many of us could build a whole mandolin in the time it would take to clean up that.

    I feel like we are not getting the whole story here. Things like this do not happen just by chance if the mandolin was constructed properly...send it to John Hamlett; he loves these kinds of projects...
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  8. #5
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    I think that Josh is hoping to find someone in Quebec who can repair his mandolin. The reason I mentioned Mr. Apitius is that he would be more likely to know of a competent eastern Canadian luthier than most of us who live in the US.

    Another person to contact would be Sergei de Jonge, who is a guitar builder in Quebec. I do not think that he builds carved top instruments, but he may know someone else who can handle the job.

  9. #6
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    So Mr White will not fix it or make a new top?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  10. #7

    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    White only made a few of these; has been making violins for a long time, so disinterest is understandable, plus the international shipping issue. What I note is that, as the top sank, someone added one or more higher bridges to compensate, so not a sudden recent issue. Impressive, though. I would have thought the top would have shattered before it went this far. Neck angle also might be off, as the break angle eyeballs a bit high, which makes things even worse.

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  12. #8

    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    Looks like melted plastic.
    Gunga......Gunga.....Gu-Lunga

  13. #9

    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    Hi everyone,

    Thank you for the valuable feedback. I have an update for you and I am hoping that you can help advise me how to proceed. I've never experienced this sort of situation interacting with a luthier before and I don't know what to do.

    Mr. White sent me a very specific step by step fix to make the mandolin playable until he would have a chance to do the larger fix. To sum it up: glue the bars inside where they came unglued and lift the bridge a tiny bit. I found two luthiers who were willing to do this, one of which told me it should be at most a couple hundred dollar repair. I sent it to the other one because he came highly recommended from a personal connection and I told him the most I could spend on this repair was $500.

    He called me to let me know he had already started working on the instrument, and without asking me he had taken off the top and the back of the instrument and had started to push out the top to it's previous shape. He said that Mr. White had no idea what he was talking about and his way of fixing it would make way more sense. He told me that this would cost at most around $1000. He also told me that he had cleaneClick image for larger version. 

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ID:	191942d out cat pee from inside the instrument and that cats pee in instruments all the time. I have pictures from before I sent him the instrument and I wrapped it in a shirt before putting it in the case. The finish and the inside of the instrument were in fine condition before I sent it. I told him to please just put the instrument back together, do the repair I asked for, and send it back to me. I reiterated that the most I could spend would be $500 and I didn't want him to do anything other than the repair I had initially talked about.

    He sent me the mando back with a bill of $2000 "generously" discounted to $600 to fit my budget. This included charges for many things he did without asking me: reglue & correct top not position, fix fingerboard crack, clean pet urine, remove 2 tone bars, correct arching, install lateral brace, tone bar, bracing, and reglue front and back. He literally did nothing of the repair I wanted, went forward with removing the back and front of the instrument without my permission, and made up a story about cat pee in the instrument to either get more money out of me or cover up a mistake he made. On top of this, now the mandolin sounds nothing like it used to, it is twangy and the tone is not beautiful anymore. The action is uncomfortably high, there is a stain inside the instrument, and whereas before the sides of the instrument were smooth, he put the top and back on unevenly so you can see and feel the top and back poking over the side all around. I'll attach pictures.

    How am I even supposed to react to this? What are the professional requirements here? Am I really supposed to pay him for this? What is the luthier etiquette for this situation? Is it ok to open up an instrument like this without the owners permission? I'm completely at a loss and down about what has happened to my mando and I'm hoping you guys can give me some sort of direction here.

    Best,
    Josh


    After I received it back:
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    This was inside the mandolin before I sent it:
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  14. #10
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    In my experience a good luthier never does any work without the express permission of the owner. If you are able to document conclusively everything that you have laid out above, you might be able to take the luthier to small claims court and sue for up to the fair market value if the instrument, because you have essentially lost the instrument. That’s because what you got back isn’t the same instrument, really.

    I might warn you that soon this thread may be shut down by a moderator for violation of posting guidelines. I wanted to get this in before that happens. This is turning into a personal dispirited between you and the luthier, and the forum isn’t supposed to be used for those types of disputes.
    Don

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  16. #11
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    You should contact Peter Sawchyn In Saskatchawan I bet he could help. We dont have a good selection of luthiers up here. Most are to glue happy. Ive been looking for along time. We have builders of instruments. But lack quality repair talent.

    I know of a few in the city here I would not give my broken broom to fix.

  17. #12
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    I don't know Canadian law but in the US you gave him a budget and specific instructions what you wanted done. He did not follow either and violated your contract. It sounds like his cat peed on it too. He also did unauthorized work that substantially alters and potentially ruins the instrument. I wouldn't pay him. I would get an estimate to fix his "fixes" and demand he pay for that work.

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  19. #13

    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    I do have sympathy, but the quoted instruction from the builder in the first post, and what the builders here mentioned, pretty much tells the tale. I’m guessing that luthiers and builders generally go a bit beyond in customer support, making them quite different from, say other craftsmen and mechanics who do not explicitly guarantee performance. But there are limits. Court is not worth the permanent damage to your psyche, IMHO.

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  21. #14
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    Before we get too far down the line please read this portion of the Posting Guidelines:

    Grievances, personal and corporate: The Cafe discussion forum is intended to be a nurturing community. While it is fair game discussing vendor corporate policies, public malevolent harassment of individuals, including posting names, email address, or any other personal contact information will not be tolerated. For example, a concern about a manufacturer's warranty policy or a reseller's return policy is permissible. Using the forum to malign or leverage personal advantage in a conflict is strictly forbidden. Though intent or motivation are not always provable, the moderators reserve full right in deeming whether or not comments made are consistent with policy, and may take action to edit, delete, or when necessary, revoke posting privileges.
    If the vendor in question is named or identifiable I can guarantee the thread gets shut down.
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  22. #15
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    Several post showed up here before I clicked "reply" so I've edited out the redundant parts of this post.

    It is common for luthiers and customers to enter into situations like this without written contracts, and I assume that is probably the case here. If so, there really isn't much you can do except try to settle the situation directly with the luthier.

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  24. #16

    Default Re: In need of repair: Peter White mandolin

    Thanks everyone. I have no intention of naming the vendor in any way. I am just at a loss with the situation and appreciate all of this advice about how to proceed. I really don't want the headache of a court case. It seems like my best option is to explain to him why I have no intention of paying him for this work, and then try to find someone who is willing to clean up this mess for me. Thanks again for the time, sorry to post something I didn't realize was against the guidelines, there has already been very helpful feedback here though thank you.

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