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Thread: Celluloid laser cutting

  1. #1

    Default Celluloid laser cutting

    Hallo. I just bought a laser CO2 60Watt for inlays on musical instruments.

    In Greece it is common on mpouzouki to use celluloid inlays but i must learn how to cut it. It is of 1mm thickness, usually 0.6 to 0.8mm.

    I know it is very flammable. I have seen it catching fire. Has anyone cut celluloid?

    Any guidelines? Is there any celluloid which is suitable for laser cutting?

    Is there any other material which is not flammable and is flexible ?
    Also to be suitable , not dangerous for cutting (no gases).

    Thank you !!!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    Just to be clear, many different materials are called celluloid, which once was a trade name for the nitrate. A quick web search showed one instrument supplies vendor saying that their ‘celluloid’ could be laser cut. Generally, though, the material decomposes above maybe 130C, the decomposition is exothermic, which means it spreads, and the vapors then combust. Oxygen from the air isn’t needed, so flushing the workpiece with inert gas isn’t going to prevent it. Once it ignites, the whole piece is going to be involved. Now this won’t likely be an explosion, but if you have a significant size workpiece, it may ruin your laser optics.
    I think that the specific material you buy may have composition unknown to the seller, and be variable besides, so if you want to experiment, start with a very small piece and good ventilation. I have not yet seen a school or ‘makerspace’ laser installation without proper exhaust.
    There are lists on the web of materials to use/not use in the various laser cutters, which I recommend reading carefully, and also being careful with some kind of powered exhaust for everything, even the ‘safe’ ones.

  3. #3
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    Don't even try it. Real celluloid nitrate will ignite and it will be hard to stop the fire. I once managed to ignite celluloid strip in ht sand bath and the only way to stop it from burning was rubbing the burning part against edge of table to remove the burning parts faster then they grow. I lost almost 10 inches of the binding strip...
    Celluloid acetate may be different thing.
    If you want to cut pearl inlays be prepared that is also another league because of reflectivity it may kill your lenses or even laser.
    Galalith may be your material of choice but it is not very flexible, it doesn't burn but can crack easily. Could be good for flat inlays.
    I don't know much about modern plastics that replaced celluloid.
    Adrian

  4. #4
    Likes quaint instruments poul hansen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    ......... it may ruin your laser optics......
    Yes the soot is black and very sticky and difficult to remove.

    If it's for dots on the fretboard I have bought Fender celluloid picks and made the dots with a holepunch, which worked very good, even for a restoration. I had quite som bother to fade it to the right colour though.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

  5. #5

    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    Thank you for your interest.

    As I understand it is not safe and therefore i dont plan to use it.
    I may make a test in a very small piece. I will look for the gallalith you suggested.

    Has anyone tried to cut mother of pearls, abalone etc? I had tried in a laser i planned to buy, it was beeing cut but the edges were ruined, like sand.

    Thanks!!

  6. #6
    Registered User amowry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    I don't think I'd try cutting celluloid with a laser. It machines very nicely with a CNC router, so that's the recommended route. There are a lot of plastics you can cut with a laser so you may find an alternative, but bear in mind that some, like PVC, release toxic chemicals and should never be cut with laser. Acrylic is the best, and is available in a lot of colors, including ivory and tortoise.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    Hallo
    Thank you for your interest.
    I mean something like the below photos.

    https://rembetiko.gr/uploads/default...d25459fa3.jpeg

    https://static.car.gr/13501847_0_b.jpg

    I can use acrylic in some spots ie rozette but not large areas because the wood with acrylic will not pulsate

    Celluloid come in many colors
    http://mavromoustakis.gr/Products.aspx?pId=679&pg=1

  8. #8

    Default Re: Celluloid laser cutting

    Georgalasg, Pretty instruments. Decoration like this once was seen in mandolins and still can be seen on some made in Asia, but fashion now is for simple decoration, or copies of a few instruments designed around 1910-1920. In any case, fancy decoration long ago meant quality because of the handwork and skill required, but doesn’t mean the same thing today, because of lasers, CNC cutting, photo-printing, or die-cutting. Americans seem to like interesting wood grain and a couple types of finish patterns, but not heavy decoration, and certainly not on the part of the instrument that makes the sound. Bouzoukis are interesting with high decoration as performance art, and various ouds and lutes also. I’m just waiting for illumination to work into serious instruments, where it now would be considered too vulgar, even for solid-body electric guitars.
    It mostly is just fashion, but somewhere there is also consideration of sound quality.

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