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Thread: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

  1. #1

    Default Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    If there is any information you can share about this mandolin, I would greatly appreciate it. I was my dad's. What I know, he brought it back from Germany where he was stationed after the Korean war.

    It's labeled Framus on the body, Black Rose Baby Deluxe on the tail and numbered 10501 or 70507 on the back of the head. It's not been modified except for the pickup that my dad added which can be removed without any change to the instrument.

    I know it was purchased at Hummel Musikhaus both from the sticker that still remains and the receipt. Hummel Musikhaus is still in business believe it or not.

    I realize that seems like I have a great deal of information and I suppose I do. However, I don't know who made it? Is it actually a mandolin? The body is so large that the only case my dad was ever able to find for it was a banjo case. It seems to be strung oddly why so different from other mandolins?

    It's in very good shape, the pictures show some wear and dirt from hands while playing. The tail has some odd green stuff starting around the first word. Should I clean that? It's been in the case without being played for 11 years. Since I don't play it will go back in the case. Recommendations on storage?

    Thanks to all in advance that take the time to read this and share your knowledge and expertise. Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Registered User slimt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    No idea. But that looks pretty cool.

  3. #3
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    The only thing I see right off that is odd is the stringing of the tailpiece. I just looked at another one and that stringing is normal for these I guess. It looks like a Framus mandolin built by Framus. Cleaning off the green isn't an awful thing and if it's going to be stored you might want to ease the strings off a bit and it looks like they already are. There is a lot of information on the Framus Vintage site but it may or may not have the information on this model. The tuners are not original, those are Gibson Grover tuners that were introduced to the world in the early 2000's.

    There are several threads that discuss this model on the Cafe. They can be found here.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Thank you - I will check out the links you have provided.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Hi Maggie,
    I have a Framus BRBD that I acquired this summer - and it's vying with my '24 Gibson snakehead as my favorite mandolin. The odd stringing of the tailpiece is because the tailpiece was designed for ball-end strings (which I suspect is how they did it in Germany). I have mine strung with ball-end flatwounds (purchased from Martin at emando.com). The deep body gives it a big voice, and I find it perfect for jazzier things. String it up and play it!
    As for how to care for it, keep it humidified in the winter, and generally away from the extremes of heat, cold, or humidity. Take tension off the strings if you are not going to play it (but you should!) The "green stuff" may be slight corrosion: be careful what you use to clean it (banjo restorers use a product called simichrome paste on the metal parts: that might do it). Framus didn't make a lot of them. Here's the link to a page on the Framus museum: says they were made from 1950 (but I;ve been told late 40's) till early 60's https://www.framus-vintage.de/en/mod...mentscdc5.html

    Good luck with this - Michael

  6. #6
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Very cool mandolin! The tailpiece was designed for ball end strings, unusual for mandolin sets. If you store it, relax the string tension.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Here's mine, BTW, with original tuning pegs. Click image for larger version. 

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    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Very cool. You could always sell it here in the Classifieds. It's a desirable instrument for people who appreciate something different.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    The pickup, by the way, was made by “Barcus Berry” (surprise, surprise!) and dates from the mid 1970s; I have one just like it. It’s a pretty standard piezo and doesn’t necessarily need to be beneath the strings. They’re just as good as any modern piezo pickup as the technology hasn’t really chaged since the invention of the telephone. They really benefit from either a preamp or an amp with a very high input impedance. Originally, thy came with an optional “preamp” which, was simply a FET buffer which widened/raised the impedance of the amp input.

    How easy it will be to remove it will depend on how it’s attached. They originally came with a packet of white “putty” which enabled them to be easily removed but somebody might have glued it in place.

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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    The tuners are not original, those are Gibson Grover tuners that were introduced to the world in the early 2000's.
    Are you sure about that Mike? They’re identical to the Schallers I bought about 5 years ago.

    R

  11. #11
    Registered User Tom C's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Thats cool. First mando I like in the wine color.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Thank you all for the great information. As someone who doesn't play I can't tell you how wonderful it is to be able to ask questions of experts.

    @mrmando I have no intention to sell it. My dad played it in "just for fun" bands from when he returned from the service until he passed away. Which makes it amazing what great shape it's in.

    @Ray(T)I believe the pickup is on with the putty you describe. My dad added that in the late 70's or 80's.

    @mjbee, @mikeedgerton I love the original keys. I'm sure he is the one that changed them which means the originals might show up in his stuff one day.

    I do have a remaining question - Is there a mandolin case made that this will fit in? My dad brought it home in a, foil looking, gig bag. He spent 78 years looking for a hard case that would fit it. Never did - it lives in a banjo case.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    One more question - should I change the strings on it to the correct kind?

  14. #14
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray(T) View Post
    Are you sure about that Mike? They’re identical to the Schallers I bought about 5 years ago.

    R
    My mistake, they are Schallers. They still aren't original.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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    Ray(T) 

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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    I thought that TP was meant for ball end strings, no?
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    If the tailpiece has 8 holes through it (which can’t be seen on the photographs) yes, it was intended for ball end strings. Ball ends aren’t as common as loop ends; which is why your dad probably used loop ends, but you can buy them. If you were going to play it, I’d suggest phosphor bronce light gauge to start with but if you’re simply going to put it away as an heirloom, I’d leave it as it is. Strings are “consumables” and should you ever come to sell it, the purchaser won’t be put off by an old set of strings and they’ll likely want to change them anyway.

    As for a case, not having seen it in the flesh, you might be able to find one by trecking around a few music shops but most solid mandolin cases are produced for a very narrow range of popular mandolin sizes and anything slightly out of the ordinary is likely to find itself in a banjo case. Many instruments of that vintage were sold without cases so an “original case” isn’t something you’re ever likely to come across.

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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    If you buy ball end guitar strings of the same gauge/style as the mandolin strings you would like to put on they would be the same and work fine.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  19. #18
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    The numbers are certainly 1's not 7's here in central/eastern Europe that's the common shape of 1. It's different from US font 7.
    Adrian

  20. #19

    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Here is a shot of the tuners on a 1959 example which also has a sound hole. I would imagine with its shape, that the mandolin may prove to be a little problematic to find a hard case as the mandolin is 12.5 inches wide. https://reverb.com/au/item/7036074-f...-mandolin-1959

    Edit:I found this written on an eBay in the UK listing posted on Worthpoint:

    "When I first added this mandolin to my collection, it came without a case and it took me years to find an appropriate one as the body is way too large to fit into any conventional mandolin case, the one in the picture being originally designed for a Spanish bandurria. The fit is undeniably snug but the case does the job."

    This company in Spain sells them- not cheap! It is possible that a small banjo case might be an option.

    https://www.guitarrasdeluthier.com/e...urria-case/441

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by NickR; Dec-11-2020 at 5:02am.

  21. #20
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    Those original tuner buttons are a thing of beauty; too bad about the replacement.
    Emando.com: More than you wanted to know about electric mandolins.

    Notorious: My Celtic CD--listen & buy!

    Lyon & Healy • Wood • Thormahlen • Andersen • Bacorn • Yanuziello • Fender • National • Gibson • Franke • Fuchs • Aceto • Three Hungry Pit Bulls

  22. #21

    Default Re: Framus Black Rose Baby Deluxe Mandolin #10501 or #70507

    I saw another with replacement buttons so I presume those original buttons were liable to break, which is a shame.

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