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Thread: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

  1. #1

    Default A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Trying to make a list of my options for a new or used A-Model Archtop Oval Hole in the $500-1000 range that’s the best quality I can get for the money. I’m specific to this style, ie not F hole or a flattop.

    So far I have:
    Kentucky 272
    Eastman MD504 or MD604
    Morris A4
    Any other modern made mandolins?
    How does the Morris compare to the others?

    I probably prefer modern but I don’t have a good handle on what vintage instruments might fall in that range, if any, and what’s a good quality line versus not and how to assess condition and existing repairs.

    I’ve scoured the Internet and have a few leads but wanted to check my list.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by mandokismet; Dec-12-2020 at 11:34am.

  2. #2
    Registered User Gunnar's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    You can sometimes find a good late teens Gibson for that budget. After "22 they're more expensive, and I feel like they seem more expensive also in about '15 and earlier. Others may be able to give more details.

    I've heard very good things about the Morris
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    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by mandokismet View Post
    I probably prefer modern but I don’t have a good handle on what vintage instruments might fall in that range, if any, and what’s a good quality line versus not and how to assess condition and existing repairs.
    In your price range, I’d at least kick the tires on this one:

    https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Gi...EaAr1OEALw_wcB

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  5. #4
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    You might luck into a Gibson A or A Jr at that price. My Jr was at the top of the range. Seems like prices have gone up a bit this year, but you may luck out. Just be aware that in that price range the Gibson will probably have some repairs and may not look the nicest.

    Besides the ones you listed, Breedlove made a couple of different oval hole A styles, the Quartz 00 and the American 00 either of which are under $1000 for an American made instrument.

    Have only played one Morris mandolin and I liked it. It was an F hole style, not oval hole. Your other leads are solid. One friend has the Kentucky and she loves it. I haven't played one, so can't comment. I do like the Eastman oval holes. And if you can find an Eastman 304 that's the best deal of the range, IMO.

    If you do decide on the Eastman, Dave's Guitar Shop in WI has a 504 at a very attractive price. Haven't played it, but have known Dave and been a customer of his shop since almost the beginning.
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    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    https://reverb.com/item/37347759-bre...07-clear-satin

    Heres a neat one I'd be all over if I didn't just buy a new Martin guitar. Dont tell the wife 🤣🤣🤣

    NfI

  7. #6
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Just a little over your stated budget but this Pomeroy A looks really good...

    https://reverb.com/item/20166057-pom...3-violin-burst
    Charley

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  8. #7

    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    I have made a few A style with an oval sound hole they have an arched top but the arch is built in rather than carved. I have dreams of producing a few in the future and am struggling to find a way to keep them in the $500 - $1000 range. You are on an interesting quest. I agree with the others about looking for used. Maybe try a wanted to buy in the Cafe classifieds. Best wishes, Maurice

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    My '22 A was $600 in in 1983 Bought from a shop in SFO.
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    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    And the Pomeroy is gone. That was a lot of mandolin for the money, I wonder if the OP jumped on it?
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

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    Registered User Joey Anchors's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    The Eastman MD404 is also another great option in your price range
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    My '22 A was $600 in in 1983 Bought from a shop in SFO.
    Hah! A time machine will get you to that price I paid $700 for my 23 snakehead about a year or two before that time. Ahm the good old days, except that was a pile of money.
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  13. #12

    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Thank you to everyone who responded. It was really helpful. A couple of follow-up responses...

    * I didn't see that Pomeroy in time, but it looked like a great option.

    * Someone pointed out to me privately that the Guitar Center Gibson was missing the E string when you zoomed into the one and only picture, which might be a red flag. I emailed GC about it but they never responded and it looks like it's been sold. I'm hesitant to get into vintage internet purchases since the variables seem so much greater without seeing them in person. I don't want a fixer-upper.

    * For whatever reason, I'm partial to darker wood tones on my mandolins, so the blond Breedlove looks good, but it didn't excite me. It's a bit limiting on my part, but you have to love looking at to want to play it IMO.

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    Registered User Scott Rucker's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    I haven't played one but am intrigued by the idea of the mahogany back/sides on the Eastman 404. I'd love to hear one to see if it makes a big difference between it and its maple kin.

  16. #14

    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    It would take a bit but have Howard Morris build you one. You can have input on the wood and have it staine4d how ever you would like.

  17. #15

    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    To follow up on this, I ended up buying a used, mint Eastman 504 w/ hardshell case for $525 delivered, which I thought was a good price since it's basically new.

    It's not an American, handmade mandolin obviously but I'm pleased with it. I was looking for a distinctively different tone than my f-hole and everything I read beforehand seems to be true - longer, warmer resonance and sustain with slightly less volume. On certain notes, the whole body seems to hum, like I hit a synchronice frequency. An oval hole also seems to be a better mandolin for listening to yourself practice and play - the sound comes to me in a louder, clearer way. Without prompting, my wife even noticed and liked the different tone (more than my Pava she said).

    My one surprise was that I was expecting a reddish toned wood based on the photos of my exact mandolin, but also photos online from retail stores. There's zero red - it's a plain brown. Maybe my eyes or my browser are rendering things wrong, but do you see reddish tones in this photo?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	001629.jpg 
Views:	90 
Size:	993.0 KB 
ID:	191134

    Or in this Mandolin Store listing?

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    Registered User Frankdolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Nice lookn' mando, good deal, you like. It's a good day. As far as color my Pave A4 in Brown is proving to be very difficult to photograph. Enjoy!

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    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by mandokismet View Post
    To follow up on this, I ended up buying a used, mint Eastman 504 w/ hardshell case for $525 delivered, which I thought was a good price since it's basically new.

    It's not an American, handmade mandolin obviously but I'm pleased with it. I was looking for a distinctively different tone than my f-hole and everything I read beforehand seems to be true - longer, warmer resonance and sustain with slightly less volume. On certain notes, the whole body seems to hum, like I hit a synchronice frequency. An oval hole also seems to be a better mandolin for listening to yourself practice and play - the sound comes to me in a louder, clearer way. Without prompting, my wife even noticed and liked the different tone (more than my Pava she said).

    My one surprise was that I was expecting a reddish toned wood based on the photos of my exact mandolin, but also photos online from retail stores. There's zero red - it's a plain brown. Maybe my eyes or my browser are rendering things wrong, but do you see reddish tones in this photo?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	001629.jpg 
Views:	90 
Size:	993.0 KB 
ID:	191134

    Or in this Mandolin Store listing?
    Nothing wrong with that colour. They are all pretty much like that these days with the MD504 model.
    Nic Gellie

  21. #18
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    I have heard on the grapevine from a reliable source that most if not all new Eastman mandolins will be built with larger frets this year. I have an MD505 with larger frets on a 12" radiused fretboard. Sounds great and plays as well as a Collings MT or a Breedlove FF. The two latter mandolins I have either owned or have now.
    Nic Gellie

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Hah! A time machine will get you to that price I paid $700 for my 23 snakehead about a year or two before that time. Ahm the good old days, except that was a pile of money.
    Time Machine indeed . that and it's predecessor* were bought on installments , savings from low paying wages or Lay Away ..
    * a Gibson A 40 , found for sale on a Bulletin board @ U Vt, for $150..
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    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Rucker View Post
    I haven't played one but am intrigued by the idea of the mahogany back/sides on the Eastman 404. I'd love to hear one to see if it makes a big difference between it and its maple kin.
    Based on the small number of videos I have listened to, it sounds warmer and richer - a bit like the older Gibson oval holes.
    Nic Gellie

  24. #21
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    Based on the small number of videos I have listened to, it sounds warmer and richer - a bit like the older Gibson oval holes.
    I like Mahogany on certain mandolins, like my flat top and other ovals. Its punchy, warm and so very mid range focused. It sounds great playing open chords due to its overtone presence.

    However, for me, it lacks the brightness and loudness I desire for Bluegrass, where I want that tight, focused tone of maple.

  25. #22
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Of course maple backed mandolins provides that punch for bluegrass. I concur. However, either beech or mahogany backed oval hole mandolins provide that warmth and musical colour that is present in other musical genres. If one is going for an Eastman 504 or 404 then the 404 is a contender for those musical styles. Check out this recording of a 404 with high quality microphones:

    .

    It might not be in the same league as this Gilchrist oval hole. It is not far from it though.



    That one had a birch back. This one has a maple back:

    More projection of course in that mandolin.
    Last edited by Nick Gellie; Jan-10-2021 at 3:17am. Reason: formatting post
    Nic Gellie

  26. #23
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    And here is a recording of an Eastman 504 mandolin



    And for good measure a 1924 Gibson A-4 mandolin:



    I am putting these up for comparison as I am doing research for making a Gibson oval hole copy mandolin and I am planning to get a 404 or 504 Eastman as part of this research. I will be waiting for the new Eastman 404 or 504 models when they finally are available. They will be the new models with wider frets. I will post a review then.
    Last edited by Nick Gellie; Jan-10-2021 at 3:24am. Reason: formatting post
    Nic Gellie

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    Registered User Steve 2E's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    Based on the small number of videos I have listened to, it sounds warmer and richer - a bit like the older Gibson oval holes.
    I have owned a 1912 Gibson A and a 2019 Eastman MD404. Both were purchased in the $500-$1000 range. I have never played an Eastman MD 504 or any other Eastman for that matter so I can’t make the maple vs. mahogany comparison.

    The Gibson and the 404 both had the warm open characteristics you would expect from oval holes, but the Gibson was much louder and had more projection with that dry woody tone that I don’t think you can get with a modern instrument. The Eastman had a very nice rounded tone, but it seemed like it was almost muted. I had thought about removing the Eastman’s finish to see if that helped, but I moved it along before I had the chance.

    I hope it doesn’t sound like I’m giving the 404 a thumbs down because I think it’s a great instrument. If it was the only instrument I owned I would be quite happy with it. I did prefer the feel and playability of the Eastman over the Gibson. The neck on the old A was a bit uncomfortable for me.

    Unfortunately I moved the Gibson along too, so I can’t do a video or real time comparison. I sold them both to help fund another purchase, not out of dissatisfaction. I would welcome them both back if we crossed paths again.

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  29. #25
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: A-Model Archtop Oval Hole $500-1000

    What year was your 404 made Steve? I have a video from TFOA in Holland in which it sounds quite loud. The mahogany back may not project as much sound as a maple backed 504 but then again it comes with.aslightly drierr to E than the 404.
    Nic Gellie

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