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Thread: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

  1. #1

    Question Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Hi All,

    I bought a second hand mandolin and immediately realised that the first 3 frets of the instrument are out of tune even though the strings are properly tuned.
    I've moved the bridge and made sure the 12th fret octave is in tune but the first 3 frets are still too sharp?
    For example if I played on the G string, the pitches are open G, first fret - A (?), second fret Bb, third fret Db.
    Does anyone have any advice on how I can fix this at home/any advice as all the Luthiers where I live are currently closed because of Covid.

    Thanks!
    Jess

  2. #2
    Registered User Mike Buesseler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Sounds like your nut might be too high. Too much tension when you fret causes notes to go sharp?

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  4. #3
    Registered User Mike Buesseler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Wait...first fret G string would G#. Second fret A, third fret Bb.

  5. #4
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    I agree. Classic symptom of strings too high at the nut. If you are handy with tools it is something you can fix. There are tutorials on line, like this one.http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth...ut/setnut.html

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  7. #5

    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Jess, before getting into recutting those slots as Mr Ford suggests in the link, which can be a BIG DEAL, and involve special tools, measure string height for all the strings in two places: between the string and the fret at first and twelfth. Chances are good that both the nut and bridge heights are too high. Looking for around 0.01” to 0.012” at fret one, and maybe 0.050-0.060 at twelve. If you don’t have measuring means, find something you can look up, like paper thickness.
    Next, push strings down hard at fret one and also near the bridge end of the fretboard and see if all the frets are touching the strings. If not, you have a bigger problem!
    Set the bridge height: easy if you have two little wheels, skilled task otherwise.
    Back at the nut, see if the strings all sit about half-buried, which is ideal. If they do, and the nut is too high for all the strings, see if you can measure how much, then loosen all the strings enough so that the nut comes loose, (it may be glued down, so leave it alone; mark the bridge position so you don’t move it), and sand down the underside of the nut till it’s closer to ok, and put it back. This is not too easy either, but could be a lot safer than going after the slots. Give yourself at least an hour, and go slow.
    If you overdo it, you can shim the nut back up, although a luthier, which I am not, would not approve!

  8. #6

    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Thanks everyone for your advice! I'll give this a go tomorrow and see how I get on

  9. #7
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    J and sand down the underside of the nut till it’s closer to ok, and put it back. This is not too easy either, but could be a lot safer than going after the slots. Give yourself at least an hour, and go slow.
    If you overdo it, you can shim the nut back up, although a luthier, which I am not, would not approve!
    It's better to cut the nut slots. If you cut too deep, use baking soda and super glue to fill the slot and cut again.

    Believe it or not, the super glue and baking soda is a trick I learned from luthiers.

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  11. #8

    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Thanks for this Rich005

    I've done as you said however the nut is definitely glued down so I am slowly filing away at the string gaps (my housemate happened to have the tools for whatever reason). The E and A string sit half burried however the D and especially G string are basically just sitting on top so I have a lot of filing to do.
    One question:
    When I press at both ends of the string, it touches all frets which is good however you mentioned altering the bridge height, I do have two spinners but they won't move. What would altering the bridge height achieve?
    Also in order to get the octave on every string in tune, I've had to angle my bridge. Is this allowed/normal?

    Also bizarrely after filing the nut on the G string about a 1mm, the first fret still sounds an A instead of G#! Shall I just keep filing?

    Thanks for all you help everyone. I'm typically a violinist so fixing a mandolin is very new to me
    Last edited by Jess.pl; Dec-23-2020 at 3:22pm. Reason: Adding more information

  12. #9
    Registered User Pappyrich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    STOP!! You need to understand more about what you are attempting to do. You could easily cut the nut slots too deep. You can get a FREE guide to how to setup your mandolin from a fellow MC member named Rob Meldrum. The tasks are not individually difficult, but you really need to have some good directions. Just send Rob a private message here on MC requesting a copy of his setup guide. It will give you the step-by-step instructions you need.
    Richard

    Eastman 305
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    Martin D16 guitar
    Great Divide Guitar (Two-Old-Hippies)
    OME 11" banjo (1973)
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  13. #10
    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    Jess, before getting into recutting those slots as Mr Ford suggests in the link, which can be a BIG DEAL, and involve special tools, measure string height for all the strings in two places: between the string and the fret at first and twelfth. Chances are good that both the nut and bridge heights are too high. Looking for around 0.01” to 0.012” at fret one, and maybe 0.050-0.060 at twelve. If you don’t have measuring means, find something you can look up, like paper thickness.
    A dime is .053” thick, a quarter is .069”

  14. #11
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    Default Re: Octave in tune but lower frets are not?

    Hi everyone,

    The free set up book is still free. :-)

    Just email me at rob.meldrum@gmail.com and put Mandolin Set Up in the subject line.

    Rob

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