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Thread: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

  1. #26
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by mandroid View Post
    the un imbedded fiber dust is a lung tissue irritant purportedly akin to asbestos.
    but that's a builder's issue rather for the owner of the finished product.
    Yes, that was my point why there are so few if any CF mandolin makers.

    I also asked Blackbird, another CF and eKoa maker about any plans for mandolins but at that time they opted out of going that way.
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  2. #27
    Registered User rnjl's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Re: Synergy Instruments, they have an Instagram page, which is linked on their Youtube channel. I'm not on FB so can't view much of the page but it might have further contact info or updates on it.

    I'm just a curious bystander and have no stake in this, except that if I was a rich man I'd have a CF mando at some point.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    It seems like there's a market out there for CF mandolins, mostly as second or whatever instruments. Looks like they'd have to be affordable rather than premium priced, though.

    Re. Synergy, I emailed them a while back asking if they had any vids of their CF mandolin - no response.

  4. #29
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Synergy social media: 7+ weeks since last Instagram post. Last YouTube post Aug 27. One individual reported last communication regarding payment was September 3. Since that time, nothing. Searching through my email that appears to make two individuals that have paid in full and have reported consistent and complete lack of ability to contact anyone.

    Those are the facts. Paints a picture of a lot of activity stopping around end of August, start of September. I'm not saying they're dishonest or out of business. No one seems to know. I would say, speaking only for myself, that's not an organization I'd want to do business with. It's entirely possible something catastrophic has occurred, but at some point, some direct communication would be in order to say the least.

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  6. #30
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by rnjl View Post
    Re: Synergy Instruments, they have an Instagram page, which is linked on their Youtube channel. I'm not on FB so can't view much of the page but it might have further contact info or updates on it.
    Synergy's last post on Instagram was on October 30 for a solidbody electric guitar. The mandolin was posted on August 27.

    On another note there are a few active CF guitar/uke makers:
    • Emerald Guitars - in Ireland, but no mention of mandolins though they do make ukes and even harp-guitars and harp-ukes.
    • Klōs Guitars - in Utah. They don't have any mandolins but they have a drop-down menu "Coming Soon" which has a bunch of other instruments including mandolin. I would guess they are seeking interest in pursuing these down the line. I think my daughter's trail buddy on her thru-hike on the AT carried one of these the whole way.


    I am sure there are others out there.
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    In my experience, temperature isn't much of an issue with steel core strings, whether plain drawn or braided. Current synthetic core fiddle strings aren't much affected, but the old gut core strings used to badly affected by temperature, and even more by humidity changes. Natural bow hair (horse's tail I think) is also affected by humidity changes, in extreme cases it can make a bow too slack to use.
    I would have to disagree completely, my experience is steel ( mandolin) and PB strings tighten and are difficult to tune when the temp drops much below 50 degrees F. if you think about the exposed surface area, and metal reaction to temperature, its far quicker than a block of wood. I don't have scientific data to prove that, but we jam outside a lot in upstate NY, but when it start to dip below 50, we move inside.
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by tmsweeney View Post
    I would have to disagree completely, my experience is steel ( mandolin) and PB strings tighten and are difficult to tune when the temp drops much below 50 degrees F.
    I wonder if that's the strings tightening, or the rest of the instrument and accessories changing dimensions and causing them to do that - anyone know? I guess the mandolin would go sharp when that happens? I used to play in bands where raised temperatures at weddings caused strings to go flat, but for some reason reed instruments of the accordion family went sharp. Fortunately the accordions were usually in Scottish tuning (very wide 3 reed musette, one at concert, one flat, one sharp), which hid it a bit.

  11. #33
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by tmsweeney View Post
    ...we jam outside a lot in upstate NY, but when it start[s] to dip below 50, we move inside.
    My last 2020 job was in October, nasty pandemic month: a Halloween celebration in Penfield NY, just east of Rochester. I've played for the town's Halloween party for 24 straight years, and was hired to play for this outdoor event (avoiding COVID) October 30. Temperature was 38ºF for a two-hour gig. I was set up fairly close to a nearly-useless "fire pit" iron gizmo, with my stool and Fishman PA column. Had fingerless gloves to keep at least part of my hands warm, but by the time I was done, I was so stiff I could hardly get off my stool! Instruments stayed in tune pretty well, though; wasn't playing mandolin, but guitar, banjo and ukulele.

    Realities of gigging around this area, is that you sometimes deal with near-freezing temps in late Fall or early Spring, if you're up for taking outdoor gigs. Haven't found that strings were harder to get in tune, but if you take your instruments from a warm to a cold environment, you're going to have to adjust tuning until they "settle in" -- if they do.
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  13. #34
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Agree with Allen, once in the cold, instruments seem to settle and then will stay (somewhat) in tune. Have played a few farmers markets where when we started it was in the 30's. Unfortunately, the fiddler's fingers are a bigger obstacle to playing in cold than the instrument. And no heaters available.

    FWIW, there are number of local fiddlers who use carbon fiber fiddles for outdoor gigs when the weather is less than ideal.

    Have only played to a bit below zero so can't really attest to playing in actual cold weather. And we were standing near the open back of a vehicle that had the heat on, so it wasn't that terrible.
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  15. #35

    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    I have an F5 carbon fiber on the way from Circle Strings, Burlington, VT. I should know better than to predict when it will arrive, but a safe bet might be before Spring. I get the impression from Adam Buchwald that building CF instruments is not easy. Regardless, I’m excited about having a CF mandolin from such a fine builder. I’m okay with playing a non-traditional instrument. Happy Holidays, everyone! This Cafe has many fine people.

  16. #36
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Peter Mix recounts his sad tale on this post from 2019: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1722308
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  18. #37

    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Carbon fiber (in resin) and wood along grain both have very low thermal expansion coefficients compared with steel, so strings, most of which have carbon steel cores, should tighten in the cold. The rest of the instrument shouldn’t matter, with one possible sonic effect, as cross grain CTE is large. Since strings are very thin, they should “settle down” quickly. Presence of warm human fingers shouldn’t have much effect. Or thermal effects from plucking.
    Carbon fiber is engineering-able in that the fiber has a negative CTE, so the resin it’s in plus the weave allows adjustment, needed in some critical uses to get close to neutral.
    Low-coefficient strings are possible, but can’t imagine anyone would care.

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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandolin Cafe View Post
    Synergy social media: 7+ weeks since last Instagram post. Last YouTube post Aug 27. One individual reported last communication regarding payment was September 3. Since that time, nothing. Searching through my email that appears to make two individuals that have paid in full and have reported consistent and complete lack of ability to contact anyone.

    Those are the facts. Paints a picture of a lot of activity stopping around end of August, start of September. I'm not saying they're dishonest or out of business. No one seems to know. I would say, speaking only for myself, that's not an organization I'd want to do business with. It's entirely possible something catastrophic has occurred, but at some point, some direct communication would be in order to say the least.
    It's my understanding the two individuals in mention have finally received refunds from their credit card companies in the amount of what they'd paid Synergy. Don't know anything more than that and nothing further was offered by the individual that was one of the two.

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  22. #39
    Registered User Peter Mix's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Peter Mix recounts his sad tale on this post from 2019: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...=1#post1722308
    I enjoyed re-reading my sad tale from 2019. Since then, Adam Buchwald has built a number of carbon fiber mandolins based on my work that really make me want one.

    Adam is uniquely skilled and it takes talents like his to transform a raw cf mandolin into a finished gem. Add Kevlar and it gets all the more difficult.

    His results are pretty fabulous.

    No one has figured out yet how to do this quickly, easily and inexpensively.
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  24. #40
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Always nice to hear from you, Peter! And good to know that Adam is carrying the Carbon Fiber Flag.
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Always nice to hear from you, Peter! And good to know that Adam is carrying the Carbon Fiber Flag.
    As I understand it, Adam's at Circle Strings, but I'm having trouble getting a usable website for them - security warnings (usually just BitDefender getting jumpy about expired certificates), but then it appears to go to an unrelated page for (something) Botanicals? Anyone got a good URL?

  26. #42
    Registered User Jill McAuley's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    No problems here accessing Adam's site for Circle Strings or for his other business Iris Guitars. Was able to navigate the page without any botanical content:

    http://www.circlestrings.com/guitars/
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    my Youtube channel

  27. #43
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Mix View Post
    I enjoyed re-reading my sad tale from 2019. Since then, Adam Buchwald has built a number of carbon fiber mandolins based on my work that really make me want one.

    Adam is uniquely skilled and it takes talents like his to transform a raw cf mandolin into a finished gem. Add Kevlar and it gets all the more difficult.

    His results are pretty fabulous.

    No one has figured out yet how to do this quickly, easily and inexpensively.

    Peter, what a coincidence: Just about an hour ago a preowned NewMAD Mix A-5 was delivered to me. I had it shipped to my workplace and right now I'm anxiously waiting for my colleague to leave so I can finally check it out. (Gosh, what's taking her so long!!!)

    2008. Man, what a tragic anti-timing indeed. This is the first time I was made aware of your story - and now I'm feeling like I'll be holding a part of mandolin history soon.

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  29. #44
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Mix View Post
    No one has figured out yet how to do this quickly, easily and inexpensively.
    I've wondered how the future might look for CF instruments (especially mandolins) as I am also interested in them. I hope it's bright and thrives!

  30. #45
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willi Bahrenberg View Post
    I had it shipped to my workplace and right now I'm anxiously waiting for my colleague to leave so I can finally check it out. (Gosh, what's taking her so long!!!)
    Works for chumps. Picking's for Champs!

    Congratulations again! Christmas came early for you

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  32. #46
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willi Bahrenberg View Post
    Just about an hour ago a preowned NewMAD Mix A-5 was delivered to me. I had it shipped to my workplace and right now I'm anxiously waiting for my colleague to leave so I can finally check it out. (Gosh, what's taking her so long!!!).
    How very cool, Will. Due to brick walls and a woodstove, the temperature and humidity of the main living space at my house varies so much that a big honking humidifier only helps a little. In winter, my instruments live upstairs in a back bedroom where I can control things, but they are not at hand by any means. How excellent it would be to have one that could stay out ready to play without concern. Ditto for outside. And a piece of history at that. What a great find!

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  34. #47
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jill McAuley View Post
    No problems here accessing Adam's site for Circle Strings or for his other business Iris Guitars. Was able to navigate the page without any botanical content:

    http://www.circlestrings.com/guitars/
    Thanks Jill - here's what I get at that URL:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	circle strings 'guitar' page.jpg 
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ID:	198293

    What's this I wonder, a redirect or some kind of proxy site error?

  35. #48

    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    @Sue
    Way back in the 1890’s, this problem was solved, witness ads for the Hutchins and Merrill all-aluminum, waterproof, rot-proof, take canoeing, and pretty unsuccessful models. My black one, illustrated, even has an all aluminum fretboard. Sheet aluminum was a brand new, and exciting product, finally in production and not exotic priced (like, say, CF). Stamping allowed for low cost fabrication too.
    Of course, aluminum doesn’t sound like spruce, a trivial matter of stiffness/density most likely. But I’m pretty sure that, given a magical erasure of tradition and love of all things wood, a really good mandolin, low cost and durable, could be engineered!
    Click image for larger version. 

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  37. #49

    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Adam here from Circle Strings. I wish we could get more made from the carbon manufacturer but he isnt answering any emails!
    <violates forum posting guidelines. Please limit selling activities to the classifieds or other external sources.>
    Last edited by Mandolin Cafe; Dec-23-2021 at 3:39pm.

  38. #50
    Registered User Sue Rieter's Avatar
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    Default Re: why no carbon fiber mandolins?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard500 View Post
    @Sue
    Way back in the 1890’s, this problem was solved, witness ads for the Hutchins and Merrill all-aluminum, waterproof, rot-proof, take canoeing, and pretty unsuccessful models. My black one, illustrated, even has an all aluminum fretboard. Sheet aluminum was a brand new, and exciting product, finally in production and not exotic priced (like, say, CF). Stamping allowed for low cost fabrication too.
    Of course, aluminum doesn’t sound like spruce, a trivial matter of stiffness/density most likely. But I’m pretty sure that, given a magical erasure of tradition and love of all things wood, a really good mandolin, low cost and durable, could be engineered!
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks for showing that. It does look visually beautiful.

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