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Thread: Negative harmony.

  1. #1
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Negative harmony.

    I’m currently working my way through several high level theory books. We already discussed slominsky.

    Levy on negative harmony though, is starting to defeat me.


    As I am comprehending it, the reverse of your chord is around the fifth? So, in c, you can swing round the G. So instead of C E G, you get G, Bb, Db

    I think.

    Levy explains this, but not clearly. I did some in-depth online research but it made no sense. But I’ve either 'got it' and am overthinking it, or I don’t got it, and I’m missing something.

    Some reviews of levy says he makes fundamental errors. I can’t find any errors, but there’s a lack of clarity there.

    I know this is a mandolinist site and we’re all going to be bluegrassers and folkies, but I also know that’s absolutely wrong - I’m on several forums, but this is by far the most knowledgeable about high level theory.

    Thanks in advance.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Here's what made it click for me.




    I hope this helps. Good luck!

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  4. #3
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    @explorer. Much appreciated. Thinking chromatically help, doesn’t it?
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  5. #4

    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    I'm gonna admit, I have to plot out negative harmony on paper. Maybe someday it will become intuitive....

  6. #5
    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    I'm gonna admit, I have to plot out negative harmony on paper. Maybe someday it will become intuitive....
    I think the simplest thing is to use the parallel minor.



    If you take the Cm chord scale

    Cm dhalfdim7 Ebmajor Fmin Gb min Ab min bmaj

    You can work through substitutions. So in C major if you do a C F G C replace the G with an Fmin.

    I’m still thinking this through so please feel free to correct.
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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    3 common ways IV leads to I:
    1) IV V I
    2) IV IVm I
    3) IV #IVdim I

    Play all of them and get used to the sound. They can substitute for one another, depending on the situation of course.
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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Omg, my mind is stretching! Thanks, I needed this new level of understanding!
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  11. #8

    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    You can pivot around any axis, but the most usual place (in the key of C) is to invert over the place in between Eb and E. So E becomes Eb, and F becomes D, and Gb becomes Db, etc. Negative harmony is mostly an intellectual game that produces not very musical ideas that can actually be explained with traditional theory.

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  13. #9

    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    Negative harmony is mostly an intellectual game that produces not very musical ideas that can actually be explained with traditional theory.
    It could well be that my ears are sufficiently underdeveloped that the musical examples in the videos, as well as those I've found myself, are not very musical and don't actually sound as good as I think. Thanks for the heads up!

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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    The musical examples in the video would have been easier to comprehend and would have sounded more palatable if they had been re-voiced so that each note in the old chord led to its closest neighbor in the new chord.

    Sensible and efficient voice leading is certainly important when we dealing with I, IV, and V; but it is essential once we get into chord progressions with a lot of tension and resolution, or are exotic in other ways.

    I see the greatest value of the "negative harmony" concept as an exercise to introduce budding musicians to some of the harmonic possibilities that extend beyond simple I-IV-V progressions and the occasional cycle of 5ths. We can learn these same things by analyzing the chords in Bach's Prelude #1 from the Well-Tempered Clavier or a good movement from a Beethoven Sonata. Or, if you prefer, you can take a look at John Lennon's "Strawberry Fields Forever." Or listen to some Duke Ellington and see how he takes a simple chord progression but inserts a twist to make it more interesting.

    For those who are interested in learning more about tension and resolution, I suggest spending a few days browsing Paul Hindemith's work on the subject.

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  17. #11
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post

    For those who are interested in learning more about tension and resolution, I suggest spending a few days browsing Paul Hindemith's work on the subject.
    This book?

    https://archive.org/details/Hindemit...calComposition

    If so it's a great book and well worth study.

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  19. #12
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Yes, that's the one. His classification of chords into different groups based on the amount of dissonance in the chord's structure goes a long way into understanding how to put color into composition. It's also meat and potatoes for understanding voicing and substitution in jazz piano and guitar.

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  21. #13
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative harmony.

    Quote Originally Posted by rcc56 View Post
    Yes, that's the one. His classification of chords into different groups based on the amount of dissonance in the chord's structure goes a long way into understanding how to put color into composition. It's also meat and potatoes for understanding voicing and substitution in jazz piano and guitar.
    It was one of our basic theory systems in college music class.

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