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Thread: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

  1. #1

    Default Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Hey all,

    I recently found a neglected banjo mandolin which has likely been sitting in bad conditions for a few decades. I don't know how to play mandolin yet but I'd like to do so in the future.
    Apart from some more minor issues which I could sort easily, the main issue with the instrument is that the tailpiece is broken off. For now I 'fixed' it with a piece of tape since it's mostly decorative at the moment. But it's obvious that the instrument cannot be played like this.
    Finding an exact replacement seems very difficult. Would I be able to replace it with a regular mandolin tailpiece? If so what kind would you recommend? I found out that most come with 4 screws (one big and 3 small) while I currently have just one big screw there. I'm a bit hesitant to drill more screw holes. Would it cause issues to just use one?

    Thanks for the help & merry Christmas!
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  2. #2
    Registered User Doug Brock's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Looks cool!

    Although this has eight strings, structurally it is a banjo. I would recommend posting this on the banjo hangout site to maximize the possibility of getting good advice. They’re used to all kinds of odd instrument variations and repair issues.
    Doug Brock
    2018 Kimble 2 point (#259), Eastman MD315, Eastman MDA315, some guitars, banjos, and fiddles

  3. #3

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Hi, Merry Christmas and welcome. In addition to this site, look at banjohangout for additional information. I can’t tell from the photos, but it looks as if the top cover has just lost it’s two little rivets holding it to the folding part. Small screws and nuts would replace, or even little bits of wire. That tailpiece isn’t like a banjo, or my banjolin, and I’d keep it if possible. Also, everything I can see looks really good. A regular mandolin tailpiece could work, but the strings have to reach over the metal rim, which is higher up, and it seems that adjusting the height of the whole tailpiece is possible with the more usual banjo arrangement, and necessary. Also, that one screw may also hold the end of the stick, or some other hardware inside.
    Meanwhile, the maker’s name may be found underneath, inside, stamped on the stick that holds the neck, and this could be good to know. If anything is stamped on the tailpiece it’s the hardware maker, not necessarily the instrument maker. You probably have to learn how to adjust the neck angle to make it playable. Don’t try to tighten the skin head until you read up on it. The one that’s on there can last decades.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    It looks to me like there are holes in the part that opens up and dimples on the stationary part to secure it when closed. It is hard to tell from the pic's, but it may be possible to carefully bend the cover so it snaps in place as it is supposed to. this looks like a nice tailpiece and I agree you should try and make it work and keep it on. I agree with Richard, most of the screws that hold the tailpiece on also go into the end of the dowel stick to support the neck, so that is a must to keep.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Thank you very much for the replies!
    I understand that the pictures may indeed not be very clear, but a part of the tailpiece really has snapped off. I added another picture. The two red circles is where the snap occurred (they should be connected).
    There is a marking on the headstock “Melody”.

    I’ll indeed ask it on banjohangout too, thanks for the suggestion. By accident I already have an account there since I play banjo (but still quite novice as well).

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    You might want to contact Bernunzios Uptown Music in Rochester, NY. John has a pile of old stock parts for many banjo's. They sell parts weelky on ebay under "elleneast" besides selling through the store. You could call and likely talk to John, he is usually there on Saturday.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    I think you could live without that piece entirely, if you take the strings off to remove it. To repair it, if it’s either brass or steel, anyone with a small brazing torch, such as a jeweler or a hobby machinist, could cleanly re-attach it, losing very little of the chrome. You’d have to take it all off, and be sure to measure the angle beforehand. All the chrome plate is very nice. Many old banjos have really low-quality, decayed plating.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    I see it now, and Richard is again right. You could do without it or have it brazed. If it is cast you will most likely have to do with out it or replace it.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  9. #9
    Registered User Pappyrich's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    You could probably get by with a standard 5-string "no-knot" tailpiece. Just put both strings of each pair on a single post. The bridge will take care of the spacing.
    Richard

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  11. #10
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Pappyrich View Post
    You could probably get by with a standard 5-string "no-knot" tailpiece. Just put both strings of each pair on a single post. The bridge will take care of the spacing.
    Stewmac banjo tailpieces.

    Agreed, find one that fits, double up 4 strings and ignore the fifth.

    By the way, that looks British.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  12. #11
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    I can’t really tell from looking on my phone but might it be possible for someone to silver solder that back together?

    It looks like a British made mandolin banjo.
    Jim

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  13. #12
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeEdgerton View Post
    Stewmac banjo tailpieces.

    Agreed, find one that fits, double up 4 strings and ignore the fifth.

    By the way, that looks British.
    Those tailpices all require attachment to a rim. The OP's banjomandolin does not have that. He will have to go with a clamshell style mandolin tailpiece if he cannot fix the original.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  14. #13
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles E. View Post
    Those tailpices all require attachment to a rim. The OP's banjomandolin does not have that. He will have to go with a clamshell style mandolin tailpiece if he cannot fix the original.
    That's what they make drills, L brackets and screws for.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  15. #14
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Hahaha!
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  16. #15
    Registered User Charles E.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Looks to me that the OP could just remove the broken front part and be good to go.
    Charley

    A bunch of stuff with four strings

  17. #16

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    I think Richard/pops1 are correct. It's going to have to be repaired. It depends on your budget, but it would probably be possible to get it rechromed. I might look at the historic motor vehicle scene for someone with the skills.

  18. #17

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    I don’t think I can use it without the broken piece. It seems to me that it should be ‘pressing down’ the strings there slightly, similar to a banjo. Now the first G string has a tendency to pop out off the bridge, which I presume may be due to a lack of downward tension. Also, for the same reason the bridge does not remain entirely centred. I don’t know if it makes sense what I’m saying, but is this possible?

    I’m from Belgium, so it being of British origin would make sense. What makes you ID it as British? Do you perhaps have a clue of its age?

    I didn’t know that repairing the broken piece was really an option. I’ll see if I can find anyone handy enough to assist me with it.

    Again, thanks for the assistance!

  19. #18
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    That particular structure is very common on British made banjos. Very different from American ones.

    many years ago I had a National silver mandolins and the tailpiece broke. I found a luthier who had a replacement one for a bunch of money but he said he could repair that one with silver solder for much less. He did a great job and the joint was actually stronger than the original one. You might be shot to find someone in Belgium who does that sort of work. I could contact my friend in Antwerp and see if he knows if anyone.
    Jim

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  20. #19

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    You can tell its British if there’s a pool of oil under its engine, transmission and rear end. Or, if electric, it won’t work.
    I’ve found with my banjolin, and it’s supposedly similar on banjos, that the break angle, that is the angle between the playing strings and the extension to the tailpiece, is small, compared to other instruments, so the downforce at the bridge is low for a given string tension. I can guess at the motivation, which has to do with a nearly massless membrane head, and very light bridge. In setting up, I found the vertical adjustability of the (banjo type) tailpiece to be important. I don’t see any reason to press down near the tailpiece, and certainly, that cover wouldn’t press all the strings, inviting issues with buzz. A bit of foam underneath would help.
    Your tailpiece has no vertical adjustment, so the break angle is a function of the neck set and how the bridge height turns out. The neck set is adjustable since it pivots at the rim so that the angle of the stick alters it. I had to put in some shims to get everything right. It’s nice system, unlike a mando or guitar where messing with neck angle is apparently an adventure.
    About braze. I mentioned this as it is most useful for most metals. Silver solder is one variety, but a jeweler shouldn’t choke over this project at all, and the braze, even if done crudely, will be flexible. If it makes sense, a reinforcement can be added so it’s less likely to break again. You could also have it TIG welded, but that’s not necessary, or as easy as torch.

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  22. #20

    Default Re: Banjolin tailpiece replacement

    Thanks for explanation, Richard. Initially the neck was completely wrongly set (actually not set at all, there is an adjustment nut between the head and the neck to do so), causing the wood of the resonater to be deformed. String travel was insane due to it. I re-adjusted it in small, daily, increments to prevent the wood from splitting. So perhaps I should take another look at it since the strings are not parallel to the neck yet. Maybe that'll solve my issue with the string 'jumping' out?

    I have a friend who has some experience in brazing, so he'll take a look at it. I'll keep this thread updated.

    Jim, I'm actually from Antwerp too (well quite close). So your contact may come in handy if I can't get it sorted, thanks!
    Last edited by Pabies; Dec-28-2020 at 3:47pm.

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