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Thread: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrument?

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    Question Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrument?

    Hi everyone - my first post here, as I've been interested in learning to play the octave mandolin or Irish bouzouki for a while, and have decided to finally go for it. I want to make a good choice from the beginning, but it’s tricky with a less common instrument.

    I played woodwind instruments as a kid, so I’m familiar with reading music, but my experience with string instruments is limited to a ukulele that I can doot around on for fun, so this would be a big learning process. A few years ago at a local Renaissance fair I tried out a bouzouki and loved it, but at the time I was in no financial position to buy an expensive toy. Recently I inherited a pretty old mandolin and thought I’d practice on that as a kind of stepping stone, but after a few hesitant forays into tuning and picking on it, I opened the case to retune it and found that the neck had popped right out of its socket. I could take it to be repaired, but it made me realize that I’d have a much better time, and be better motivated, if I was playing what I really wanted.

    Internet research has given me a vague idea of the similarities and differences of OM and bouzouki, but having only played one in person, it’s hard for me to compare. I think I like the GDAD tuning better, but it might be nice to be able to switch to GDAE, and I’ve heard tales of bouzoukis not being able to handle the high string being so tight. I definitely prefer the octave strings for the lowers, but I imagine I can do that to either type. I’m a very small person (with arms stretched out I have a reach of exactly five feet) so I’ve considered that the length of the octave mandolin might be easier for me to deal with, but if there’s a big difference in sound I’d probably go with the one I prefer regardless. How would you characterize the differences between them? Or is it more a factor of individual instruments?

    The other question is budget and availability. Online searches have overwhelmingly presented me with Gold Tone and Trinity College instruments, and from what I’ve read, the verdict on these is that both of them are Very Ok. The bouzouki I played with was a TC, and I liked it, but again I have no frame of comparison. I know that with these kind of things you get what you pay for, and I’m willing to pay a few hundred dollars, but my nervousness increases with price up to about a thousand dollars, at which point I hit my limit for first instrument anxiety. I would be very cool with buying used, but am unsure how to find something I can test out before buying (I'm in Maryland, and not familiar with anyone building instruments nearby).

    So, to put it more generally, what advice do you have for me? What should I consider when I’m comparing, and where should I be looking?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    An Eastman MDO305 will get you started if you like the A style. There are other F’s out there or guitar body. Personally, I prefer the GBOM. Austin Clark made mine but it takes awhile to actually receive it after ordering. Eastmans are pretty available new and used.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    For many of us, the decision of octave mandolin vs. bouzouki hinges on whether we plan to use the instrument for strummed accompaniment, or for playing melodies, or a mix of both.

    The typically longer scale of a bouzouki is great for accompaniment, with a "janglier" tone than most OMs. It cuts through other instruments well. However, the typically longer scale than an OM requires a more extreme stretch of the fingers to play melody lines, so you will probably be using a capo to shorten the scale enough for your fingers to reach the notes. That can put you in a different key than is typically used for most Irish tunes.

    Those of us (like me) who mostly or entirely play melody instead of accompaniment will usually choose an OM over a bouzouki, so it can be played in GDAE (or GDAD) with open strings. I play a 22" scale OM for Irish and Scottish trad, and I can manage using only slightly modified mandolin fingering, but I'm a big guy. If your hands are small you might prefer a 20" scale OM.

    If you intend to play both accompaniment and melody lines, I think an OM is the better option. It loses a bit of the jangly "cut" of a 'zouk, but allows playing melody without a capo, and it's still pretty good for accompaniment.

    One more thing if you plan to focus mainly on melody. You mentioned using octave string pairs (one string in each double course an octave higher than another). That's a popular option for accompaniment, but for melody it means there will be some odd pitch jumps within the melody line that disrupt the tune. Personally, I don't like hearing that, so I have unison strings on my OM, but your mileage may vary.

    P.S. Welcome to the Cafe!

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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Thanks for the info! I hadn't considered Eastman but I'll definitely look into that.

  7. #5

    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    For many of us, the decision of octave mandolin vs. bouzouki hinges on whether we plan to use the instrument for strummed accompaniment, or for playing melodies, or a mix of both.

    The typically longer scale of a bouzouki is great for accompaniment, with a "janglier" tone than most OMs. It cuts through other instruments well. However, the typically longer scale than an OM requires a more extreme stretch of the fingers to play melody lines, so you will probably be using a capo to shorten the scale enough for your fingers to reach the notes. That can put you in a different key than is typically used for most Irish tunes.

    Those of us (like me) who mostly or entirely play melody instead of accompaniment will usually choose an OM over a bouzouki, so it can be played in GDAE (or GDAD) with open strings. I play a 22" scale OM for Irish and Scottish trad, and I can manage using only slightly modified mandolin fingering, but I'm a big guy. If your hands are small you might prefer a 20" scale OM.

    If you intend to play both accompaniment and melody lines, I think an OM is the better option. It loses a bit of the jangly "cut" of a 'zouk, but allows playing melody without a capo, and it's still pretty good for accompaniment.

    One more thing if you plan to focus mainly on melody. You mentioned using octave string pairs (one string in each double course an octave higher than another). That's a popular option for accompaniment, but for melody it means there will be some odd pitch jumps within the melody line that disrupt the tune. Personally, I don't like hearing that, so I have unison strings on my OM, but your mileage may vary.

    P.S. Welcome to the Cafe!
    Thanks! And I think you may be right - I'm starting to think the OM is probably more suited to what I'm interested in.

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    Tired & Cranky Monte Barnett's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    My first octave was a TC from Elderly (in 1987!) and it was a perfectly usable beginning instrument. Today, I’d choose the Eastman over TC or Goldtone. Regarding using octave pairs: I have one octave in standard pairing (tuned GDAD) and two others in GDAE with octave pairing on the “inboard” G and D strings in the same manner as Rickenbacker 12-strings. This helps keep the fundamental as the dominant note, and allows you, with a little finesse, to strike the fundamental without sounding the octave. Sarah Jarosz uses that setup on her Clark OM to great effect on the Dylan song “Ring Them Bells”.
    Monte

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Barnett View Post
    An Eastman MDO305 will get you started if you like the A style.
    Good luck finding one of those. They seem to run about $745 retail (cheaper than TC and God Tone) and every dealer I see is waiting for delivery.

    Also to consider (aside from mandolin- or guitar-shaped ones) is whether a flattop or carved. Different sound of each.

    This guy is phenomenal player in this video (and a real character) playing a lower end OM sold by Hobgoblin and (I believe) made in Vietnam. Hobgoblin US sells this one for $435. There are some other demo videos online of that model plus Hobgoblin carries other more expensive ones here (US Store, but they also have many store in the UK. BTW don't get confused by the term octave mandola. It is the same as Octave Mandolin but they call it a mandola in the UK.

    Jim

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    That $435 Ashbury Rathlin OM in the video looks interesting, and we could sure use some more affordable (and available) options.

    One thing that worries me a bit though, is I don't see a cover plate for a neck truss rod in the headstock. It might be the type that's adjusted through the oval hole at the neck block, and I know some high-end luthiers use carbon fiber reinforcement with no truss rod. But that's not the usual thing on inexpensive imports. I'd recommend calling the dealer and asking about a truss rod before purchase. Personally, I'd be wary of a Vietnamese made instrument without an adjustable truss rod at this price.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Even lower priced is the Hora/Thomann (Romanian) ones that show up on eBay for under $200. There are some reviews of those on YouTube. I think the Ashbury has gotten good reviews but I can understand the concern of a lack of neck reinforcement. I think the Hobgoblins will know.
    Jim

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    Registered User Aaron Bohnen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Maybe also consider the Pono guitar-bodied octaves? They can be had in combinations of two scale lengths and two body sizes. Used ones are sometimes priced at the upper end of the OP's price range and occasionally appear in the classifieds here. (there's one there now for $850 - NFI on my part)

    If that one wasn't your taste, the designer, Kilin Reece at krstrings.com, is a personable fellow and may be willing to entertain questions as to which other model might be more suitable.

    Happy new year!
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    If that was the shorter scale version (21.5” vs. 23”) I probably would go for it. Good price and that is a nice sounding all solid wood.
    Jim

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    Registered User John Flynn's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Even lower priced is the Hora/Thomann (Romanian) ones that show up on eBay for under $200. There are some reviews of those on YouTube. I think the Ashbury has gotten good reviews but I can understand the concern of a lack of neck reinforcement. I think the Hobgoblins will know.
    I had a Hora OM years ago. It had no neck reinforcement except a neck as thick as a baseball bat. And the top sank. Also the tuners were awful and they were non-standard spacing for replacement. Not a satisfactory purchase.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Thomann is a large store chain and I would hope that Hora got their act together to improve their product. Then again I certainly don’t know. Reviews are usually based on new instruments and rarely a few years later. Caveat emptor!
    Jim

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  18. #14

    Default Re: Octave Mandolin/Irish Bouzouki - how to choose first instrume

    Lot of great information in these replies! Thanks everyone - I think I have a somewhat better idea of what I'm looking for now. I've got some time to look around, so I'm going to try to keep an eye out for instruments I can check out in person to get more familiar with what I want. Hopefully I'll be back to let you all know what I end up with.

    Thanks again. Happy new year!

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