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Thread: playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

  1. #1

    Default playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

    I'm thinking of making a mandolin for a friend of mine, a guitar player as am I, and we both find the string spacing and nut width of my mandolin a tad tight for full sized fingers. I have a 1930's Kay with a nut width of 1 3/32", and from what I read that's a tad small but "normal" nut width is still only 1 1/8". Not doing more than fool around with a mandolin I thought to ask if there are technical playing reasons, technique, left hand fingering requirements, that make the narrow nut width desirable? I guess I can make the neck any width I want, but I want to both honor tradition and get it right for players other than old grumpy guitar players...

    Thanks, Brian

  2. #2
    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

    There is one technique I use frequently but not everyone does, which requires the narrower string spacing.

    I play mostly Irish and Scottish trad, where an "A modal" or "E modal" chord can be fingered (bottom to top strings)as 2-2-0-0 and 0-2-2-0 respectively.

    The trick is to use the tip of your index finger to hold down all four strings in those two adjacent courses at the second fret. This frees up the rest of your left hand fingers for holding or releasing other notes within that chord shape as part of the melody line. Since the chord lacks a third interval, it works in both major and minor key tunes, where you don't necessarily want that emphasis. There are a few other places I'll use that idea, where it's useful to hold two adjacent string courses down with a single fingertip and the other fingers free, but those two chords are the main ones.

    It takes practice, some callus on your index finger tip, and I have to make sure I trim my index fingernail short enough that it doesn't interfere. I can sort-of manage it on my octave mandolin which has wider string spacing by angling my index finger a little more to the side, but it's much easier on mandolin with standard string spacing.

    Anyway, this is one of those violin-related techniques that guitar players don't always appreciate when they start looking for a wider neck/nut spacing. It's not a requirement to get through the tunes though, and some people transitioning from guitar do prefer the wider spacing.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

    In terms of actually playing I find string spacing on the bridge saddle to be the one that matters. String spacing on the nut and nut width is just something most people adjust to, whether narrow or wide. Narrow nut (say 27 or 28mm) fits closed bluegrass chords better than say a 30mm nut on a mandolin. The string spacing on the bridge saddle affects the output in my experience. If for example the two Es are close to each other and the same with the rest, you get a sound almost like a single string. When you play tremelo if the two same strings are slightly further apart, the plectrum hits them in a slightly different way and changes the sound, to the better in my view. Hope this helps in some small way.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

    I will disagree that you get used to a narrow nut width. That is like saying that wearing narrow shoes will be acceptable as you will get used to it.

    The minimum acceptable nut width for me is 1 1/4. Anything less and my fingers touch the other strings. It is a mechanical consideration.
    And, yes, I come straight down on the strings. And no I am not fat nor have chubby fingers. I do have wide palms.

    Both my custom made Seifferts had 32 mm nut width .. perfect.

    I did not transition from guitar to mandolin, the reverse.

    The minimum acceptable standard for me on a steel string guitar is 1 3/4 but I prefer 1 13/16ths or 1 7/8ths with a bridge string spacing of no less than 2 1/4 with
    2 3/8ths prefered.

  6. #5

    Default Re: playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

    I'm going to note that once I get any instrument set up to my standards, I have no issues playing even full barre chords up the neck.

    A lot of players go for high action and heavy strings. I go in the other direction, enabled by perfect fretwork and low action.

    I can always go in the other direction, raising the action to the point of discomfort and going with heavier strings to choke off soundboard vibration and volume, but haven't felt the need. More than a few pro players feel the same, and avoid unnecessary effort getting in the way of playing.

    So, if I can play tremolo and barre chords even on mandola-width necks with my normal hands, action and fretwork affect playability a bit more than normally receiving discussion in these topics.

    Back to talking about playability only in terms of neck width!

  7. #6

    Default Re: playing technique reason for string spacing and nut width?

    For the builders/companies that offer a wider nut, 1 3/16" seems to be the standard. I've built and played necks of various widths and have found that 1 1/8" works fine for me (I'm a guitar player also). It doesn't seem like a lot, but I think you'd be amazed at the difference in feel between 3/32 and 3/16 at the nut. The other thing you can do as a builder is push the pairs closer together by maybe 0.015" (except maybe the G) to gain more space between courses.

    Changing from guitar to mandolin requires a big adjustment in a lot of ways. I do think it just takes time and practice to get your fingers used to the new territory, kind of like learning those weird shape jazz chords on guitar. What is impossible at first becomes comfortable with practice.

    One other thing is that correct nut slot depth is REALLY important on mandolin. String clearance 0.005" above the first fret is the target. If the clearance is closer to guitar specs it's going to be very hard to play.

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