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Thread: HELP with tuning

  1. #1

    Question HELP with tuning

    I know this is probably a stupid question, but here goes. I am a mandolin player who would like to play guitar as well. Is it possible to tune a guitar like a mandolin? It would be easy to tune the bottom 4 strings but what about the other 2? Would the scale be too weird to work?

  2. #2
    Registered User Frankdolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    No stupid questions here Jim. But no. Different in every way but for strings and wood.

  3. #3
    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    Mandolin tuning (in 5ths) and guitar tuning (4ths and a 3rd) are quite different. Suggestion would be to get a tenor guitar, tuned in 5ths like a mandolin, though in "mandola range" -- CGDA instead of GDAE. There's a tenor guitar forum on this very website! You can get a "guitar sound" without learning a wholly different tuning -- though you will have to transpose your chords, i.e. a G chord on your mandolin translates to a C chord on the tenor guitar.

    If that doesn't make sense, I'd caution against trying to tune a guitar in 5ths, leaving aside the difference between six and four strings, etc. etc. Many of us play both guitar and mandolin, but most of us, I bet, keep each instrument in its own designed tuning.
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  5. #4
    Registered User Pappyrich's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    I agree with Allen. I play guitar/banjo/mandolin and my wife plays a tenor guitar. I like the tenor guitar sound. We often play and sing at assisted living facilities, as well as our old time jams (and other gigs). The tenor guitar has a nice sound and fills the guitar's space well. I concur with his advice to leave a regular guitar in it's normal tuning. Tenors are not necessarily expensive and are pretty easy to learn to play, especially if you are learning the mandolin.
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  7. #5
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    If you do go the tenor guitar route, you can tune it to octave mandolin tuning with heavier strings. So the fingering would correspond to the same frets as a mandolin, GDAE, and you would be playing in the same key.
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  8. #6

    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    Tuning a guitar in fifths would have several issues you have to overcome. The first is finding appropriate string gauges so you do not put too much tension on the instrument.

    The second is the fact you would now have to reach to the seventh fret before moving to the next string. This would require a lot of hand shifting for people with normal sized hands as you play melodies. A string bass is tuned in fourths. Some people disagree but I feel a lot of the reason is the long jumps you have to make before moving to the next strings. Cellos, mandocellos, bouzoulis and tenor guitars are tuned in fifths so it can be overcome. But they also only have four strings which brings us to the next issue.

    Playing chords. Cellos are generally not a chordal instrument so this does not become an issue there. On mandolin family instruments you have only four strings so it is possible to play only closed chords. With guitar and its six strings most people do not have enough fingers to push down all of the strings. You have to include the open strings or find work arounds like the barre or damping some of the strings. I am not certain what the chord shapes would look like for a six string fifths tuned instrument. You would have to work all that out.

    It might be an interesting experiment but I suspect the problems I have listed above have prevented it from being a practice that is used much. I have seen full page and longer lists of dozens of alternative guitar tunings people use especially in the fingerstyle world. The fifths tuning really does not come up even with the shredders and new age fingerstylists who are pretty open minded about changing things and constantly experimenting for a new sound.

  9. #7
    Still a mandolin fighter Mandophyte's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    There is also a Social Group for almost fifths tuning for the guitar: https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...-Tuning-CGDAEG
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  10. #8
    Dave Sheets
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    Guitars tuned in 4ths and the one 3rd give you a different chord voicing (spacing of notes within the chord) than an instrument tuned in 5ths. It's not necessarily a good or bad difference, but it is a difference and most people are probably aware of that difference, though most folks probably can't tell you what is happening or why.

    Tenor guitar or octave mandolin accompaniment is neat, it works well in a lot of styles, but it is a different sound than the sound of a standard guitar tuning. There are folks who play in alternative guitar tunings, such as DADGAD, or dropped D (I use dropped D a lot), and they all change how the sound, and they alter how you tend to play accompaniment parts.

    These are all good ways to approach music, but just understand that they don't sound the same, they aren't interchangeable. Understand what sound it is you want listen to some youtube videos of tenor guitar in action and figure out if that's what you want. Do have fun!
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  12. #9
    Registered User Mandobart's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    Yes you can. I tuned my old 6 string F-C-G-D-A-E. It is approximately the same scale as my two mandocello's, one of which is a 10 stringer (C-G-D-A-E). I just bought individual guitar strings the same size as what I using for the 'cellos.

    The F string is a problem. I don't recall what size I used but you're talking over .080. Hard to put on a regular guitar without saddle, nut and tuner roller mods. Makes more sense to tune C-G-D-A-E-B, using a real light (.007 Or .008) for the B.

    Even with size 11 hands it was a challenge; just like playing mandocello is a challenge.

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  14. #10

    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    I tuned and played guitar in fifths for years. Here's one topic.

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...-my-experiment

    Due to physics, there's no way to tune a 25.5" steel string higher than G4 without breakage fairly quickly. I give details about the expensive custom string used in that topic.

    I eventually abandoned full fifths at the 25.5" scale length because it was too vertical to play efficiently. I put in a lot of time working cello exercises, but now limit full fifths usage to a 20" scale length or less.

    For what it's worth, you can easily retune your guitar, using its current strings, to CGDDAE low to high, without straining it. I did that for a while before committing to doing complete set-ups on instruments for CGDAEB tuning.

    Wherever you go from here, good luck!

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  16. #11
    Worlds ok-ist mando playr Zach Wilson's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    Quote Originally Posted by Explorer View Post
    For what it's worth, you can easily retune your guitar, using its current strings, to CGDDAE low to high, without straining it. I did that for a while before committing to doing complete set-ups on instruments for CGDAEB tuning.

    Wherever you go from here, good luck!
    I used to do a similar tuning... mine was GGDDAE... I would use 2 'A' guitar strings. It was fun for singer songwriter style music but I felt limited when playing with others cause they mostly couldn't follow my chord shapes and I couldn't play proficiently in all keys. Also it was a stretch but doable.

    As mentioned above it does sound different than a "normal" guitar. If that's the sound you're going for just learn normal guitar.

  17. #12

    Default Re: HELP with tuning

    I actually did the change to have regular chord forms and scales everywhere on the fretboard....

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