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Thread: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

  1. #26

    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    FWIW, a 1/16" diameter rod of 1144 steel would yield at over 300lb of tension (which would go up to over 1200lb yield strength for an 1/8" rod). So all of our truss rods are way overdesigned, by quite a fair margin. Basically we're loading up the neck with all the mass of the truss rod just so the threads at the ends will be functional.

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  3. #27

    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    As you suggest, the size is probably more about having robust threads.

  4. #28
    Registered User sunburst's Avatar
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    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Jacobson View Post
    ...Basically we're loading up the neck with all the mass of the truss rod just so the threads at the ends will be functional.
    Not all of us...

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  6. #29
    Adrian Minarovic
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    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    From the little I know, the threads should be designed so the nut held by certain number of threads (I guess the common size of nut is dictated by this) will be as strong as the rod which they are on. So by using oversized nut (length-wise) you're risking breaking the rod if some monkey uses too much force to tighten rather than stripping the threads. I prefer standard brass nuts for truss rods (and often use another one to lock it once tight enough). Even brass or bronze nut on common steel rod is strong enough to break the rod.
    Adrian

  7. #30

    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    Adrian, yes, hardware is sometimes engineered, but not this stuff, at least not in relation to an application like this, so by using a soft, or thin nut you’re essentially doing adequate engineering. For ‘some monkey’ prevention, always an issue, there could be a golden, but very small opportunity for hardware innovation. Torque limiting nuts or single purpose torque wrenches (at a 5X markup over standard), confined space rethreading dies, or as a friend often noted, “wingwangs for goose’s bridle”. The fact that this particular subject crosses over into the general mysticism of musical sound makes for endless discussion, which is just fine.

  8. #31
    Registered User j. condino's Avatar
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    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    I've been to the Oberlin Acoustics summer workshops and have seen what it looks like when you use all of the modern technology at hand to analyze how much oscillation happens in a mandolin neck when played. It is astounding how much energy is lost in a neck wobbling all over the place and also how much all of that mechanical energy is put back into the body when the neck is stiffened up, equally from either straight rods or by adding tension via truss rod.
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  10. #32

    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    I've been to the Oberlin Acoustics summer workshops and have seen what it looks like when you use all of the modern technology at hand to analyze how much oscillation happens in a mandolin neck when played. It is astounding how much energy is lost in a neck wobbling all over the place and also how much all of that mechanical energy is put back into the body when the neck is stiffened up, equally from either straight rods or by adding tension via truss rod.
    Gotta be careful about ‘lost energy’. Just because some element is oscillating doesn’t mean it’s absorbing energy. It can be altering the sound spectrum or volume just by changing the dynamics without absorbing much. This could be good or bad. If we wanted an instrument that was ‘low loss’ we’d minimize things that damp, or absorb energy, which is mostly the direction conventional instruments evolve, but we could go much further, except for maybe not liking the sound.
    We might not appreciate the new materials, you know, the ones without pretty wood grain, or construction requiring factory-only processes.
    I’m sure that the workshops of three hundred years ago that set the general configurations would have used any materials they could have accessed to make better sound or reduce labor, and so should we, but I don’t think you’re in danger of being sideswiped by technology.

  11. #33
    I really look like that soliver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Truss Rods vs Carbon Fiber?

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