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Thread: Down Up help

  1. #1
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    Default Down Up help

    Been teaching myself, using books and dvds, since early December. I caught myself last night using upstrokes and downstrokes, but I wasn’t truly going DUDU DUDU.

    Was watching a video on mandolin lessons, and I was amazed just watching his picking hand. It was Whiskey Before Breakfast, and his picking hand looked flat out bored lol. Casually up down, up down.

    I realized I didn’t sound all that great, because I wasn’t playing my right hand like that. Well, I have spent hours since, off and on, kinda starting over. Got my metronome out, and I feel like I am relearning tunes I’ve already learned, focusing on pick stroke. It’s really slowed me down, but I think it will really payoff in the long run...

    Please tell me that is true, and it is worth what I am going through now. I want to be a good player, and I am willing to do what it takes.

  2. #2
    Gibson F5L Gibson A5L
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    Default Re: Down Up help

    It will ... be patient. Scales and arpeggios DUDUDUDU until you no longer think about it. Then it will be time to get into crosspicking where you learn when to DDU or rest stroke or stroke without playing a string. Continue watching players right hands ....... Enjoy the journey. R/
    I love hanging out with mandolin nerds . . . . . Thanks peeps ...

  3. #3
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Down Up help

    What you are describing is the proper level of relaxation of the picking hand including grip. Beginners tend to grip too tightly but you have to have the right amount of tension. If I am too relaxed I drop the pick so at that point recalculate but it should be near that point.
    Jim

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    Default Re: Down Up help

    Many years ago I too started out without knowing thr DUDUD way. I met John Reischman and he very kindly suggested I learn to do it he said "Just pretend your hand is tied to your big toe as you tap it, foot down .. pick down, foot up.. pick up" It took a while but sure was worth it.
    John told me when he was young and working as a delivery person he kept a mandolin with him and he practiced right hand up down and string crossing as he drove. Probably why he has such wonderful technique and tone.
    Dave
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Down Up help

    I went through that on guitar. I was having unexplained crash and burns in jams on songs I knew well and had played hundreds of times. At Kaufmann Kamp I had Russ Barenberg look at my picking to find what was wrong. It took him about ten seconds to spot it on Big Sandy. I was about two years fixing it and was well worth the time.

    The biggest confusion I had about it was understanding that alternating meant down on the the 1, 2, 3 and 4 of the beats then up on the "and" of 1and2and3and4. I was trying to alternate every note and it did not work out at all.

    A lot of times two downstrokes or two upstrokes in a row is more efficient and will get you to the string quicker at higher speed but then three or four notes later you will be out of position and going the wrong direction so you will crash and fall apart. There are times, like some kinds of crosspicking, where other techniques work but it is best to get the alternating picking working correctly first.

  6. The following members say thank you to CarlM for this post:

    Tony S 

  7. #6

    Default Re: Down Up help

    Try this article... https://www.flatpick.com/category_s/1900.htm

    I would also check out the Beg. Mandolin course at Peghead Nation as it probably goes over this and it’s not very expensive. I think Banjo Ben might have some lessons on technique, it’s the same for any stringed instrument played with a flatpick so even if you find a good guitar video it’s the same theory for mandolin.
    Northfield F5M #268, AT02 #7

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Down Up help

    Thanks everybody, I really appreciate it. Wow Carl, 2 years of fixing. That’s what I was kind of afraid of, and gave me incentive to stop, back up now since I’m not too far in to this, and get it down now. Thankfully, thanks to a lot of work with the metronome, I feel like it is already coming.
    I have been doing the same fiddle tunes that I’ve recently learned, over and over, as slow as 50bpm at first.

    Thanks again!

  9. #8
    The Amateur Mandolinist Mark Gunter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Down Up help

    Quote Originally Posted by Medley12 View Post
    It’s really slowed me down, but I think it will really payoff in the long run...
    Absolutely will pay off! Great that you are tackling this. The groove is in your right hand. Alternating with the beat is the key, regardless of note duration, you can set a relaxed or hyperdrive groove with your left hand by alternating with the beat of the music.

    Once that is mastered, there are other patterns you can work with as well that change the alternating stroke: Crosspicking patterns, as already mentioned, and also the triplety jig pattern DUDDUDDUDDUD - useful for many jigs, and useful for triplets sometimes as well. These other patterns are usually of little concern at first, unless you are to be playing only jig-heavy ITM. Get the alternating groove down cold. The other patterns have to follow the beat as well, so when and if you need them, you'll train yourself to the beat, not the particular note durations in a particular tune.
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  10. #9

    Default Re: Down Up help

    It's something you have to learn to play well at speed, the exceptions come later IMHO.

    In BG there aren't that many exceptions anyway, when I started dabbling in classical there were more. :-)

    And 6/8 time still drives me crazy. :-)

    Even if playing DUDU is slowing you down for now, it won't in the long term.

    There was a great video posted a while back of some exercises that changed my world, maybe I'll try to find them.

    It was essentially 1231 2342 3453 4564 and so on (G to G two octaves), and coming back down (where numbers are the notes in the scale, and some variations).
    And you didn't use the pinky trick to stay on the same string but made the string changes.
    Those exercises did amazing things for my technique, I still do them frequently.

    A little looking and I didn't find it, anybody remember the utube link?
    Last edited by kurth83; Jan-11-2021 at 1:07am.
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