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Thread: How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

  1. #1

    Default How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

    I am learning to play on the first mandolin I made, an F5 style, while I build the next. While the original functions fine and everything works in terms of tuning, etc. the mandolin has a noticeably "tinny" sound. It's very metallic and twangy. I would prefer a warmer sound, something that may sound slightly softer, more muted--but also have some sustain, if at all possible (which I realize is not a strong characteristic of the instrument in general).

    As I am constructing my next F5(s), what should I be paying attention to in order to try and achieve this with regard to construction? How important is plate carving? What about wood choice? Or hardware?

    Thanks for your input.

    -Mark

  2. #2

    Default Re: How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

    There is no one factor you should be worrying about. Or, the corollary: nobody can tell you one, or a few things you can do that will magically make this happen.
    Part of that is that none of us know what your mandolin sounds like, and there's no objective meaning for what "warm tone" means".
    So just try to keep it in mind as you build a few more. Don't make any big changes. Make one or two minor changes on each build. It's all additive and you'll get there.

    Some things I have done to try to achieve similar properties in my instruments, though:
    - Use a lower arch and lower break angle. This seems to give a little more of a flat-top-like tone, better sustain. Don't carve it too thin! Look at Silverangels -- really flat arch, I'd be surprised if they rise 1/4" above the recurve, though I haven't measured. Just barely arched. Though I don't like their high end (just personal preference, sounds shrill to me).
    - Use taller ribs and/or smaller sound ports. This will shift the tone towards the bass-heavy side. Sometimes I'll use really deep sides (maybe a centimeter deeper than Loar specs) and really bright-sounding top and back plates. I don't know what's going on in the physics, but this mandolin sounds kind of like a cymbal in a reverb chamber. https://soundcloud.com/martyjacobson...blossom-improv Lots of sustain and a reverb-y effect.
    -Use an oval hole instead of F-holes
    -Carve the top thicker than usual, which seems to help sustain, at least in my builds, at the expense of some volume. Then I leave the back quite thin and floppy. This gives a really bell-like treble, much clearer than anything I've heard on a Gibson-style build, but without as much midrange (no "chop"). But it screams like a Stratocaster with incredible sustain and clarity in the high end. David Mold's mandolin is one I built like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-54DAnpFXlg

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  4. #3
    Registered User
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    Default Re: How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

    My first 2 builds were built at the same time, but one was an F5 maple/spruce and the other an A5 mahogany/spruce. The difference in tone is night and day. Both sound good but the A5 has a more mellow sweeter sound due to the mahogany I suspect rather then the shape. I wouldn't try and build an F5 with mahogany as I don't have the confidence to bend the scroll area. Maple is relatively easy to bend but mahogany not. If you think you could do it, then try the mahogany/spruce combo, to achieve a more mellow sound. Another option would be to build an A5. You may want to stick to the more traditional maple/spruce, but if you're openminded try it.

  5. #4

    Default Re: How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

    Never have even held a F-x one, let alone a great one, and also don’t build instruments, and yes, my occupation was doing physics, but have a small collection of things with 8 metal strings. The ones that have had ‘warmth’ and sustain are deep-bodied A types from Mexican tradition, as if they evolved closer to a guitar than from some tiny soprano thing. One 12 string antique bowl back is strong and resonant at the bottom despite its doubtless heavier construction. Why?

    I gather that pre- and post-electric evolution of the mandolin as a band member pushed toward loudness and audibility as virtues: the human ear being what it is, ‘tinny’ in that register is better. Plus or minus the subtleties that skilled luthiers bring to the craft.
    So, Mark, maybe you can mold an F-x to your preferences, or a flat-top, or a mandola. Guitars are nice too.

  6. #5

    Default Re: How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

    To me the important things are thickness, shape and wood selection.
    Unless we're talking oval holes, the template of the "warm" mandolin tone is the Lloyd Loar F5. 99% of mandolins produced today follow that template with varying degrees of success. Even more modern designs still use the basic premise of the f-hole elevated fingerboard 15 fret neck joint in their construction. The blueprint with the most information about them is clearly Adrian Minarovic's plans.
    Mike Kemnitzer believes the wood is so important that your wasting your time without "musical wood". Mike has a tonebar zylophone that holds his tonebar blanks at the neutral points and he raps them with a pencil to see how vibrant they are. Few have the ability to search out great tonewood. You usually get what a supplier sends but it's worth the search.
    The one I think beginners miss most often is getting the shape of the plates correct. To often the recurve becomes a trench around the top. That's going to be tight
    and not flex. Look at reflections of the tops of the great builders and work on that smooth transition from recurve into the climb of the arch. Another one that is easy to miss is how the top ramps from the tail to the peak. This is the area of the plate where the warmth comes from. It should be a gentle incline, not a hump.
    Then the back. The most memorable thing I got from Bob Bennedetto's video's on archtop guitar construction was while everyone talks about the top this and the top that, its the back that gives the instrument the warmth. I believe that's where I missed the boat on my earliest instruments in the 80's. So pay attention that it's good and flexable.
    This is dedicated to a former member who hated the term "warmth".

  7. #6
    Registered User Bob Buckingham's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to achieve a "warmer" sound?

    I find oval hole mandolins warmer and brighter all at once. Heavier picks, picking near the neck are the cheapest ways to warm up your sound.

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