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Thread: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular technique?

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    Default Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular technique?

    I found some rest stroke exercises, where you pick one pair and finish the stroke resting on the next. It didn't say whether this is just a temporary exercise or somethimg to use all the time when possible. i guess the former, is that right?

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    For many classical players it is absolutely a part of their technique and used when the music dictates its use. It is definitely not just a temporary learning tool. I have no idea about other genres though. Many high level classical players, to my observation, shift to seamlessly between 45 degree rest strokes and 90 degree up/down strokes that it is very hard to see the subtle shifts. Here is a good thread about the question:

    https://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/t...430&viewfull=1

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Logan View Post
    For many classical players it is absolutely a part of their technique and used when the music dictates its use. It is definitely not just a temporary learning tool. I have no idea about other genres though.
    Rest stroke techniques are also part of Gypsy jazz picking and in what's also called "economy picking" where successive downstrokes are used when possible rather than strict alternate picking.

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    John Moore told me in a workshop that he uses them whenever possible. Pretty amazing to watch him play like that.
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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    About a year ago I decided that it would be fun and good for me to learn some gypsy style picking on guitar. Some progress has been made although there's not enough hours in a day. But I found that that right hand technique of rest strokes, down strokes on a new string, just carried over unconsciously to mandolin. Not all the time, but it makes a difference. One more arrow in the quiver, so to speak.

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Ludewig View Post
    ... I found that that right hand technique of rest strokes, down strokes on a new string, just carried over unconsciously to mandolin. Not all the time, but it makes a difference...
    What difference did you find it makes, Dale?

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    I'll try to explain as best I can. Firstly, it makes me way more conscious of my right hand. A person can get to where they don't think about that hand, especially after many years of playing So there's that. I guess one of the main things is that in using the rest stroke, you're coming at the strings with the pick aimed more at the top of the instrument so that the pick "can" rest on the next pair (or single string on guitar). It is a firm stroke, still with a loose grip, and, at least for me, gives a better tone. Also in gypsy picking, if you play let's say the 3rd string with a down stroke and the next note is on the second, you hit that next note with a down stroke, whereas in typical bluegrass playing you're likely to play it with an up stroke, typical DUDU. I can't and don't do it all the time but just making me think that intensely while playing is a good thing. Maybe in 10 years, when I'm 81, I'll be mixing up the techniques, using them all, without thinking. On a side note, but probably important, is that the standard gypsy pick is 3.5 mm thick. That'll change your attitude. When I go to mandolin with a Blue Chip 60, it's like a vacation.

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Thanks for all that Dale, that's interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Ludewig View Post
    On a side note, but probably important, is that the standard gypsy pick is 3.5 mm thick.
    Whoah! And I thought I was on the edge trying a Dunlop 2.06.

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    In this video, you can see clearly what Tim talks about. For slow melodic playing Jeanette Mozos del Campo uses rest strokes with an angled pick, resulting in a more mellow tone. But for playing tremolo, her wrist is straight:

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian DP View Post
    In this video, you can see clearly what Tim talks about. For slow melodic playing Jeanette Mozos del Campo uses rest strokes with an angled pick, resulting in a more mellow tone. But for playing tremolo, her wrist is straight[/video]
    Yes, that's clear thanks. In some classical mando books the recommendation seems to be to pick both strings on the down rest stroke but only hit one on the up free stroke. That seems to give a thinner sound on the up stroke. It sounds a bit like the old classical violin 'down bow accent' thing, where accented notes were played with a down bow wherever possible. This resulted in many classically trained (at school) folk players who hammered the down beat all the time, even when the most convenient bowing would involved accented up bows, or alternating up and down bow accents as in some shuffle bowings. So, do classically trained mandolinists tend to be down pick-centric?

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    Yes, that's clear thanks. In some classical mando books the recommendation seems to be to pick both strings on the down rest stroke but only hit one on the up free stroke. That seems to give a thinner sound on the up stroke. It sounds a bit like the old classical violin 'down bow accent' thing, where accented notes were played with a down bow wherever possible. This resulted in many classically trained (at school) folk players who hammered the down beat all the time, even when the most convenient bowing would involved accented up bows, or alternating up and down bow accents as in some shuffle bowings. So, do classically trained mandolinists tend to be down pick-centric?

    That is a distinct technique, referred to in some method books as Short Tremolo. Generally, the goal is to make upstroke and downstroke as equal as possible.

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    there is some obscure guy that pretty much used this forceful down stroke/down stroke/down stroke "rest stroke attack work well for him.... I think his name was like.... Bill Monroe
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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Quote Originally Posted by Christian DP View Post
    In this video, you can see clearly what Tim talks about. For slow melodic playing Jeanette Mozos del Campo uses rest strokes with an angled pick, resulting in a more mellow tone. But for playing tremolo, her wrist is straight:
    Great video - thank you for posting!

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    Yes, that's clear thanks. In some classical mando books the recommendation seems to be to pick both strings on the down rest stroke but only hit one on the up free stroke. That seems to give a thinner sound on the up stroke. It sounds a bit like the old classical violin 'down bow accent' thing, where accented notes were played with a down bow wherever possible. This resulted in many classically trained (at school) folk players who hammered the down beat all the time, even when the most convenient bowing would involved accented up bows, or alternating up and down bow accents as in some shuffle bowings. So, do classically trained mandolinists tend to be down pick-centric?
    As a newbie classical student I don't find it makes me "down pick-centric". It does make me acutely aware of the wonderful potential of judicious and thoughtful pick use on the music. I also find it takes a lot of focus and practice as one attempts to make the technique become natural and tasteful. My impression is that professional classical players alternate between pick angles totally subconsciously. Watching such players is very inspiring!

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    I've always used rest strokes, even before knowing there was a name for them, trying my best to mimic my mentor Charley Rappaport's powerful right hand. I've always found they help me dig in and get sound out of the instrument. It's like following-through when swinging a baseball bat.
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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    My impression is that professional classical players alternate between pick angles totally subconsciously.
    There's a book by German classical mandolinist Gertrud Tröster (now Weyhofen) called Technique on eight Strings.
    Two ways of using a pick are introduced:
    1. The slanted pick, where on the downstroke both strings are played and on the upstroke only one.
    The sign for that pick angle is a / and the upstroke V has a small point in the V to show, that only one string is picked.
    This picking gets used for half-,quarter and slower eighth notes.
    2. The horizontal pick, where on up-and downstroke both strings are picked.
    The sign is somethong like an I and there's no point in the upstroke V, meaning both stirings are picked.
    This picking gets used on fast eighth notes, sixteenth notes and tremolo.
    I don't know about the pick angle or rest stroke in other schools of mandolin playing, for example in Italian mandolin music,
    but in Germany, the vast majority of editions follow this pattern.
    Maybe after having studied a lot of pieces conciously, the top-players don't have to think about these rules any
    more, but classical newbees or even intermediate players surely have to pay attention.

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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    I've found rest stroke exercises help keep me aware of how I need to attack with my right hand for which tone I want. There's a specific way that I can attack my G string with a rest stroke that will cause my mando to resonate in a great way where I can really feel it. It's a great thing to explore.
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    Default Re: Rest Strokes - a means to an end, or part of regular techniqu

    He uses a rest stroke when playing Tres cubano. It is not a typical consumption. But it suits me.
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