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Thread: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

  1. #1
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    Default Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    I purchased my Loar LM520 from TMS back in 2017. It was set up well with no issues out of the box. Intonation was and has been good up the neck. It, along with my A-style and OM, hang on the wall in our sunroom (doubles as my office). There's very little fluctuation with humidity and temperature. All 3 are pretty good at holding their tuning from day to day with the usual adjustments.

    About 6-8 weeks ago, I noticed that my 12th fret E is sharp (almost matches the 13th fret F#). It's isolated to this one fret on the treble side; no where else. There's a lot of information about this subject in the archives but I didn't find anything specific to one string, one fret, only. It doesn't seem to be a nut problem, the strings have not been changed since this started, and the bridge height has not been changed. My (untrained) eye doesn't see any peculiarities with the fret itself. A similar problem popped up with my Trinity College OM I bought in January from Elderly and may be related. I'd appreciate your ideas and suggestions. TIA.
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    Registered User Randy Mallory's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    I had exactly the same issue with a Loar LM-600. One day, just out of the blue, it started not intonating correctly on the E string - 12 fret. I was never able to figure it out and ending up selling it.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Maybe it's a worn fret so it's hitting the next fret up, that's my best guess. You can verify it's a geometry issue by temporarily raising the bridge height on the E side (if you have an adjustable bridge). For non-adjustable bridges, use a paper shim (like an index card, some kind of thick paper or multiple layers) - it will not be good for the tone, so not a permanent fix, just a way to test the issue.

    Neck could be off too, but seems less likely if it's just a single fret.

    Take it to a luthier, likely a fret level or refret wil solve it, and they should be able to tell you what your options are.
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    I could easily be the 13th fret is loose and raised up slightly, enough to interfere with the note on the 12th fret. A slight tap should reseat the fret. Hold the string down at the 12 fret and look at the space at the 13th fret between the string and the fret. Fret at the 11th and look at the 12th for comparison.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Sounds like your bridge moved forward a little. Loosen the strings and move it back without changing the bass end.
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    Registered User Frankdolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Change the strings.

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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Quote Originally Posted by PDMan View Post
    I had exactly the same issue with a Loar LM-600. One day, just out of the blue, it started not intonating correctly on the E string - 12 fret. I was never able to figure it out and ending up selling it.
    I understand why you sold yours. If I wasn't so happy with mine, I would sell it. Even when I upgrade here in a year or two, it will probably remain my beater.
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Thank you all for jumping in on this. It's time to change the strings but I wanted to see what else I might do while it's on the bench. Pops1, I was wondering about the fret height so I'll give it a tap during my string change and see if that works. I can't see any differences in height but, then, this is my first issue with a mandolin. If that doesn't do the trick, I'll try the bridge adjustments that Kurth83 and Dick recommend. I don't know of a good mandolin luthier here in the DFW area so I appreciate the suggestions.
    Last edited by FredK; Jan-19-2021 at 7:11pm. Reason: Correct typo
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  10. #9

    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    I second changing the strings. I do a lot of setups for a local shop and most intonation problems are caused by strings going dead. Always start with the most simple, before making any adjustments, which might not be necessary at all.

  11. #10
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Thanks Jeff. I like simple, too. It's time for a new set anyway.
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    A bad string, a high 13th fret, or the bridge moving are the most likely reasons. Since it is time for a string change, I would do that first. You can check for a high fret by using a straight edge that spans just the 12th 13th and 14th frets. If the fret end is high the straight edge will rock on the high fret. It is possible, though less likely, that the 12th fret is low. If you use the straight edge across the 11th, 12th, and 13th frets you will see a space between the edge and the 12th fret. You can use a tuner to check if something has happened with the bridge position.

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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Thanks Nevin for the tip. Checking fret height with a straight-edge will be an easy and quick thing to do this afternoon, though a string change is probably a day or two away (depending on my workload).
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevin View Post
    ... check for a high fret by using a straight edge that spans just the 12th 13th and 14th frets. If the fret end is high the straight edge will rock on the high fret ...
    Suggest going to StewMac's site and look up their Fret Rocker, with instructions. THEN use a credit card to perform the same fundtion: less-than-surgical precision but still highly informative.
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    When you rock to see if you have a high fret don't press too hard, pressing too hard on a loose fret can push it down and give a false reading.
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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    I worked on a The Loar F5 of similar vintage to yours for a customer, and a few of the frets had started to lift due to low humidity during the heating season. Seems like they may have cut the slots a slightly too wide, or the fretwire didn't have a broad enough barb. There was no room in the budget for forensic work, so I just glued 'em back in and properly humidified the instrument. Also had a chat with the customer about maintaining humidity. (Not an issue in your case, evidently.)
    Last edited by Jonathan Ward; Jan-20-2021 at 7:05pm. Reason: Correction

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    Default Re: Fretting sharp on the 12th fret E string

    Well, I used a straight edge to check fret height and everything's level on the 11th, 12th and 13th. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I even used a magnifying glass to make sure. No evidence that the bridge has moved. The next stop is to change the strings. It's been over a year anyway. Just ordered some heavier strings for my OM from Just Strings so I'll change out all 3 mandolins at the same time. It'll be a good opportunity to clean the fretboard while I'm at it. Even though I use a microfiber rag to clean after playing, the magnifying glass revealed some build up around the frets. Gotta keep my babies clean.
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