Dating a Gibson A by FON

[Bazz Jass]

Hi all,

The serial number on my Gibson A has faded entirely from the label.

The FON is clearly visible on the neck block - 11103

I had a look on the Mandolin archives page and found this listing for 11102 stated as 1917

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/44512

But then these two have the same FON as mine, and it says 1924:

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/75124

http://www.mandolinarchive.com/gibson/serial/75182

Mine is Sheraton Brown plain Style A like three above.

Thanks,
John.

[Ray(T)]

11102, 3 and 4 are shown in Spann’s guide as 1918.

[mrmando]

But Spann also lists 11101A and 11105A as 1924 numbers. (There's a whole column of 111xxA numbers for 1924 on p. 73 of Spann, although curiously 11106 in that list doesn't have an A.)

So some FONs from 1917–18 were reused in 1924, but Gibson seems to have tried to distinguish between the 2 years by adding the A.

If your mandolin is a paddlehead it's from 1918; if it's a snakehead it's from 1924 and perhaps the A wasn't sufficiently inked.

BTW ... Spann has exactly ONE FON listed for the entire year of 1919. Flu pandemic must've all but shut down production.

[NickR]

Does it have a truss rod? No truss rod in an 1918 made mandolin neck.

[rcc56]

Spann's specifically lists 11103 as belonging to a batch of plain A's built in 1918. During that year, all mandolins would have left the factory with tuners with scalloped ends on the base plates, a cam style pickguard clamp, no truss rod, and a "one piece" non-adjustable bridge. All A models were made with "paddle" style pegheads.

By the time Gibson re-uses the number 11103 in 1924 and adds an A, a style A mandolin would have a truss rod, and most likely a snakehead peghead. Also, some mandolins had the screwed-in pickguard support by that time; and the scalloped-end tuners were about used up. Tuners with square end or arrow-end base plates were more common.

[Bazz Jass]

Thanks very much everyone.

The mandolin conforms to 1918 specs as described above. Great info!

[Ray(T)]

Pity about the missing pickguard clamp - I suspect that the, glued on, celuloid bar which connected it the the pickguard (or as Gibson called them “finger rests) snapped off and it has since been separated.

The pickguard has the usual appearance of deterioration (gassing off) and you need to keep an eye on this. This can happen if you keep the mandolin in its case for extended periods. If you do, you will likely next find corrosion on those frets immediately next to the guard and, in extreme cases, scorch marks on the top. Solution? Either take it off and store it in the air or leave the mandolin out and play it!

[Bazz Jass]

Pity about the missing pickguard clamp - I suspect that the, glued on, celuloid bar which connected it the the pickguard (or as Gibson called them “finger rests) snapped off and it has since been separated.

The pickguard has the usual appearance of deterioration (gassing off) and you need to keep an eye on this. This can happen if you keep the mandolin in its case for extended periods. If you do, you will likely next find corrosion on those frets immediately next to the guard and, in extreme cases, scorch marks on the top. Solution? Either take it off and store it in the air or leave the mandolin out and play it!

Yes, that's exactly right Ray. The celluloid bar has snapped off (MIA) and what remains on the mandolin is all that was there when I got it. I'd originally thought I'd just remove the guard, as so many do, but it's so firmly attached to the side of the fingerboard that I've left it. It certainly won't fall off, and I do find my fingers resting there from time to time. I'll leave it for the next owner to decide if it stays or goes.

Thank for the tips on the gassing off. The mandolin is always on a hanger in my music room - only cased for (rare) travel.

Thanks, John.

[rcc56]

If those guards don't come off easily, they can be very difficult to remove, even by a pro who knows what they are doing.
Difficult guards should only be removed by someone who has had a great deal of experience working on the old Gibsons.
Attempts to remove stubborn guards by people who don't have sufficient patience and know the tricks frequently results in damaged instruments.

[Bazz Jass]

If those guards don't come off easily, they can be very difficult to remove, even by a pro who knows what they are doing.
Difficult guards should only be removed by someone who has had a great deal of experience working on the old Gibsons.
Attempts to remove stubborn guards by people who don't have sufficient patience and know the tricks frequently results in damaged instruments.

Exactly right. Thank you!

[Ray(T)]

They always look to me as if they’re nailed on with the heads of the nails ground off flush with the celuloid (on later models the nails don’t go right through the celuloid and Its difficult to imagine how they were attached). Presumably to stop them dropping off, the nails were driven in at an angle.