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Thread: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

  1. #26
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    I suppose you could equate this scenario with people you meet ! Would you first judge a person differently with very long hair and jeans with holes all over them from another person who has short hair and neat clothing ? At least until you got to know that person and find out their character and morals. No matter what the mandolin looks like you have to play it first before making a judgement on whether you like it !

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    There's maybe an obverse (right word?) to this - which is there are some affordable Chinese mandos in the $500-$700 range that I don't trust just because they look too fancy. Flamed wood, pearl inlays, F style - for $600? I've seen some guitars like this where the finish and fit are super glossy, it all looks good, but the sound is....nothing. In fact it's worse than nothing, it's a kind of sanitised artificial sound - ring any bells?

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Thanks to Dale and John for their input. I had always thought that more figured wood had a higher base price, but totally get that more highly figured wood can be more difficult to work, which should absolutely increase cost.

    maxr, Eastman is a very good example as well. I should have thought of them, as I sold a 315 I used as a beater at the same time as the 1N. I could hear and feel a difference between it and my better instruments, but no one I played for ever said, “Hey, why are you playing that instead of your good one?” It was as plain as could be, but had probably 80-85% of the tone of my better mandos, losing just a bit up the neck and with bass response. I played a 615 and an 815 around the same time I bought the 315. They were much flashier, but I preferred the tone of mine; at the very least there wasn’t a significant improvement moving up the line.

    For the record, I’m not a “love everything you’ve owned” guy. I’ve moved along a Kentucky 675-S, Fender 62SE (bought for plug and play ease at church), Taylor 714 (which I did like), and a couple of cheaper electric and acoustic/electric guitars that I don’t regret or miss having at all, most of which I bought when I couldn’t afford anything better. Actually used 2 of them for kindling, lol...

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  6. #29
    Registered User Louise NM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    There is a tradition of using the best materials for the top-of-the-line instruments. In violin world, student-quality bows are usually mounted with nickel silver, mid-range with sterling, and gold mounting is used on the best wood worked by the most accomplished makers. The metal used doesn't improve the mechanics of the bow but it is a signifier of relative quality. Student instruments usually have much less flame in the maple used for the sides and back, with the showiest wood used for the better-made instruments. Like with mandolins, finishes requiring more time and skill are used on higher-end instruments and more rudimentary finishes go on the lower priced lot.

    I've seen images of some mandolins that are completely tarted up with MOP inlay of dragons, battle scenes, and who knows what else. Decoration for its own sake, not as a signifier of quality. That's in a different category than using top-grade materials and finishes on a master level instrument.

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by yankees1 View Post
    ...Would you first judge a person differently with very long hair and jeans with holes all over them from another person who has short hair and neat clothing ?...
    If I get to know someone and like them, I can overlook short hair and stodgy... er, "neat" clothing.

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  10. #31
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Should they sound better? Maybe. But it depends on what one thinks is good looking. My A Jr. looks like it was through the mill (and with all the repairs it had before I got it, it was). Sounds fine to me. The Collings MT has very nice flame in the maple. Does it equal a friend's LaPlant F with fairly plain wood? Nope. Not even close.

    Not necessarily directly related to mando, but there is a whole school of thought that koa that does not have figure is sonically superior to the fancy looking stuff. Many years ago multi-instrumentalist David Lindley indicated as much in a Guitar Player interview.

    And for bearclaw, remember that's a recent thing. It wasn't that long ago that folks wouldn't buy a guitar with bearclaw in the spruce. It was felt to be a defect.
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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    First examples come from the eBay sellers from the Taiwan/Vietnam circle. I believe they have become much better in the quality of their work but many spent more time on fancy looking wood (in the past very unseasoned) than quality of their tone.

    Many years ago ~1976 I traveled to Mandolin Brothers for my first Gibson. I tried all the A-models and ended up with the best sounding which was a whitefaced A-3. I was not too fond of the look but I liked the tone and how it felt in my hands.

    A few years later in 1983, Flatiron came out with their first carved mandolins and I went to Mandolin Brothers and tried out the two there. One was the plainer A5-1 and the other the much fancier A5-2 with flamy back and ivoroid binding. I recall that soundwise they were very close but I opted to spend an additional $100 for the fancier one. I still have that one and still admire it. I didn't really need the bling but I do like it. We rarely play our instruments in the dark.

    On the third hand (!) I think I would rather buy the simplest adorned from an upper tier maker than go for the top of the ornamental line of a lesser shop.

    On the fourth hand... I am more impressed by a funky looking but great sounding mandolin made by a humble maker at modest cost if I can actually find one like that. In other words I can forgive the lowly cosmetics in exchange for the sound and playability.
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post

    On the third hand (!) I think I would rather buy the simplest adorned from an upper tier maker than go for the top of the ornamental line of a lesser shop.

    On the fourth hand... I am more impressed by a funky looking but great sounding mandolin made by a humble maker at modest cost if I can actually find one like that. In other words I can forgive the lowly cosmetics in exchange for the sound and playability.
    Jim, I think you mean feet at this point!

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  16. #34

    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    As I was once told, by a great builder "People hear with their eyes." Prettier doesn't necessarily sound better, but the human brain is a complex & confusing thing.

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric F. View Post
    Jim, I think you mean feet at this point!
    My alias is Gregor Samsa!
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by EdHanrahan View Post
    Absatively!! After all, don't clean cars always run better than dirty cars?
    No, but they sell better. I’m not a builder, so this is just my opinion. Buyers want mandolins that look pretty. If they sound good, that’s a bonus. I’m guessing that there are plain tone woods that sound just as good as fancy ones. But which mandolin is going to be easier to sell? The one with thats prettier.

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Ostrander View Post
    No, but they sell better. I’m not a builder, so this is just my opinion. Buyers want mandolins that look pretty. If they sound good, that’s a bonus. I’m guessing that there are plain tone woods that sound just as good as fancy ones. But which mandolin is going to be easier to sell? The one with thats prettier.
    Depends on your definition of "prettier."

    However, as previously noted, I believe a distinct majority equate prettier with fancier. Personally I think there are pretty mandolins that are fancy, and pretty mandolins that are simple. Sounding good, to me, would be paramount (vs a bonus), especially if I was looking for that 5th instrument that costs more than the first 4 combined

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Rieter View Post
    Sounding good, to me, would be paramount (vs a bonus), especially if I was looking for that 5th instrument that costs more than the first 4 combined
    The name “Gibson” on the peghead always sounds good!
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    The name “Gibson” on the peghead always sounds good!
    Maybe. Not sure about that from what I've read here on the Cafe. I think it might be complicated.

  27. #40
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sue Rieter View Post
    Maybe. Not sure about that from what I've read here on the Cafe. I think it might be complicated.
    Some eras are better than others, but the brand always sounds good. My fifth mandolin was a Gibson oval from the Lloyd Loar era and did, in fact, cost as much as the previous four mandolins combined!
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  29. #41
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    The whole premise of this thread strikes me as being rather silly. So let me ask (rhetorically): Do great looking cars have to perform better? Do great looking houses have to be nicer to live in? Do great looking instruments have to sound better? The answer to all three, is "No, of course not, they certainly don't have to: there exists no such requirement." That said, however, a great looking car is very likely to be something that's put together well, and by a manufacturer with craftspeople who take extra care. The same goes for a beautiful home. The same goes for a beautiful instrument. Anyone taking extra time and care to make sure that the fit and finish are just right, and that the outward appearance is stunning, is very likely to be someone who cares deeply about the craft, and therefore cares deeply about the overall quality of the product, be it a car or a home or a musical instrument -- or anything else! Does that mean that good looks and quality are perfectly correlated, and always go hand-in-glove? No, of course not, don't be silly! But they're still rather closely correlated. You can always find outlier examples of poor looks despite other desirable qualities. Ugly cars that run forever and perform well, for example. Houses that are fabulous homes despite all outward appearances. Or mandolins like Bill Monroe's beat-up old Gibson F5 Loar. And, of course, you can find the opposite extreme: things that look great on the outside but underperform, like certain ornately inlayed imported mandolins from Vietnam, or vintage cars like the Karman Ghia -- or the DeLorean, for that matter!

    A quality product is a quality product is a quality product. And appearance is but a single component of overall quality. But statistically speaking, you are more likely to find a diamond in some piece of jewelry than a diamond in the rough.

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  31. #42
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Aesthetic appeal is a matter of personal taste. (That from the Department of Redundancy Department)

    I prefer the beauty of the understated. Not a big fan of gold hardware or lots of abalone. I do like the F-5’s classic looks although almost all my mandolins are A models.
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    I've never been one to spend the big bucks for the 4A and 5A figured maple.. Most of the maple I use comes from local suppliers and is in the 2A to 4A range.. The dedicated picker wants the sound over everything "fancy".. My first build was with wood that had no figure at all.. It had good sound and was easy to play, but was heavy and not real loud.. That was all my fault.. After 20 years it's still my "camp fire" picker.. We all want 'em pretty and that is what sales in this market.. The sound is always precieved by the guy righting the check as good, or real good, or not so much.. The talent of the player greatly adds to the quality in the sound of that instrument.. I had a young'en (maybe 9yrs old) at a show pick up one of my mandos and just picked the strings off it...
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    * Do you think that bearclaw spruce and/or highly figured maple neccessarily sound better than plain good quality wood worked well?
    No of course not.

    * To what extent do players you've met assume fancy instruments sound better?
    I think approximately zero extent. Most musicians with any experience are pretty critical, and not easily bedazzled.

    * Are there makers who made/make great sounding mandolins out of plain wood - or do they tend to bow to player demand for looks?
    Of course there are. Quite a few examples. And in some cases the bow to player demands for a plain and understated look.

    Fancy aesthetics often accompany a great build quality, great playability, great sound. Not always, there are exceptions. There are fancy looking instruments that are not good instruments, and there are great instruments that are understated in their look. One should always try before buy, if its possible, because even a great instrument with great aesthetics and great fit and finish and great sound quality and great playability - might not be to the liking of a particular player. We all have preferences, and get picky. But as a general statement there is some though imperfect correlation between beautiful instruments and beautiful looking instruments. I think it likely there are far more great instruments that are not fancy than there are fancy instruments that are not great.
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post

    * Are there makers who made/make great sounding mandolins out of plain wood?
    There are. One word: Fylde
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertram Henze View Post
    There are. One word: Fylde
    Err - yes, but have you seen their Single Malt mandolin made from whisky casks

    https://www.fyldeguitars.com/sm-mandolin.html

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  41. #47
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    Err - yes, but have you seen their Single Malt mandolin made from whisky casks

    https://www.fyldeguitars.com/sm-mandolin.html
    yes, that's a rather singular phenomenon, and they were never claiming better sound, rather more mojo, if you will.
    Plus, casks were not prominently used - the tops are made from washbacks (larch being better tonewood than oak, apparently).
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  42. #48
    harvester of clams Bill McCall's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    ‘Oregon Pine’ is actually Douglas fir. Easy to see in distillery tours.
    Not all the clams are at the beach

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Whatever you think of points and scrolls, I can't count the times I've heard someone say: "that sounds really good... for an A-style".
    Obviously there is a persistent myth that "F"s sound better than "A"s. Surely there is some similarity when it comes to fancy wood.
    Pretty well sums it up.

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    Default Re: Do great looking mandolins have to sound better?

    Bob Givens made some very fine and excellent sounding instruments, but they were not made of the fanciest woods
    So true. Rumor has it that some of the wood was lumber grade...but he knew what sounded good.

    Kirk

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