My Carbon Fiber Mix A5, is not exhibiting that issue , FWIW..
My Carbon Fiber Mix A5, is not exhibiting that issue , FWIW..
writing about music
is like dancing,
about architecture
I’m currently not too far from where Sheila lives, just west about twenty miles. Last fall I spent ten weeks here, and the temperature varied from the hundreds down to the 30s at night over that span of time. I never noticed, or didn’t pay enough attention, to note any changes in the tuning of my Flatiron. I’m here for about three months, so I’ll have to pay more attention to tuning changes after reading through this thread. It should be a good test, its raining today, and supposed to rain all day tomorrow, a rarity for the desert. I should also see some pretty good temperature variances in the next three months. Very rarely is the mandolin in a case, so it should be susceptible to the humidity changes.
Play em like you know em!
Like most stringed musical instruments, it's sometimes best to think of tuning a mandolin in terms of tuning strings that are resting on a bridge that sits on a bubble. Loosen one string, especially one that has higher tension than the others, and some of the others go sharp in mechanical compensation. Along those lines, a looser relatively thick string (like a G string) will result in higher tension on some of the other strings as the bubble compensates. On extremely sensitively built mandolins, this happens more.
Add to this the effects of humidity changes, and you've got a pretty normal day in the tuning life of a mandolin.
-- Don
"Music: A minor auditory irritation occasionally characterized as pleasant."
"It is a lot more fun to make music than it is to argue about it."
2002 Gibson F-9
2016 MK LFSTB
1975 Suzuki taterbug (plus many other noisemakers)
[About how I tune my mandolins]
[Our recent arrival]
In my experience, two factors cause instruments to go sharp: increased humidity and increased temperature, both of which can cause wood to expand and stretch strings out a bit more. I keep most of my instruments in a basement room that has about the highest humidity in my house. When I take them out to play in other environments, I may have to tune some strings down to concert pitch. After they've "dried out" a bit wherever I'm playing them, I correct the pitch back up to "concert" as needed, and usually put them back in the basement at that level of string tension. When I get them out again, they may well be sharp -- sometimes by as much as a half-step.
I've also played instruments outdoors in direct sunlight, and have had to tune them down as their wooden components heated up. I try to avoid this if possible, of course, since direct sunlight can fade or soften finishes.
The possibility does exist that strings -- especially the wound ones -- may stick in too-tight nut slots, and the excess tension in the portion of the strings between nut and tuning pegs may "work through" the nut slots as the instrument's played, raising the pitch above the level to which they were tuned. This should happen while the instrument's played, though, and the strings are flexed and vibrated -- rather than between the times it's played (IMHO, anyway). Rubbing a pencil point in the nut slots will provide some graphite lubrication, and test this theory.
Allen Hopkins
Gibsn: '54 F5 3pt F2 A-N Custm K1 m'cello
Natl Triolian Dobro mando
Victoria b-back Merrill alumnm b-back
H-O mandolinetto
Stradolin Vega banjolin
Sobell'dola Washburn b-back'dola
Eastmn: 615'dola 805 m'cello
Flatiron 3K OM
Oddly, mine went flat this morning, but typically is goes a bit sharp. Was a bit cooler overnight though.
I figure it’s all par for the course, certainly don’t expect it to remain in pitch overnight.
Not all the clams are at the beach
Arrow Manouche
Arrow Jazzbo
Arrow G
Clark 2 point
Gibson F5L
Gibson A-4
Ratliff CountryBoy A
I agree with most everyone here that the single most likely cause of strings going sharp between successive playing sessions is an increase in humidity, leading to an expansion of the wooden neck and body, which tightens the strings, causing them to go sharp. However, your logic about strings binding at the nut slot is incorrect -- sorry to say! -- and this binding can represent another reason that strings can go sharp. Here's the correct explanation of how that works. We generally tune up from below the desired note. If the string tends to bind a bit at the nut, it will tend to leave the segment of string between the tuner post and the nut at a higher tension than the rest of the string, with the nut's static friction supporting the small tension difference on the peghead side. If, while sitting a while in the case, that tension gets alleviated for any reason (leading to nut slippage), then all the extra tension in the peghead segment will become distributed over the entire string, raising its pitch. So yes, string binding at the nut can certainly lead to these eventually going sharp.
its just a natural occourance that happens a lot ... any bumbleling picker who thinks your instrument is going to stay in tune all the time must not pick very much. i have a $8000 apitius and when it goes out of tune ( which is often) it always goes sharp. thats just the way it is.
Welcome, Dan, and I hope your stay is enjoyable. You're 20 miles west of me, yes? I don't think there's much apart from open desert (which is beautiful, but none too comfy for a three-month stay) 20 miles east of us. We have had a very mild winter out here--one of my blackberry canes is blooming. This weekend's storm is my first opportunity to observe what my mandolins do when it rains. I'll report back.
Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.
Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.
I noticed that peculiarity when I started on the mandolin, too. My guitars and mandolins sit right next to each other, and when I tune them, it's always bringing the guitars up to pitch, and the the mandos down.
These are the little mysteries that make life interesting...
"Keep your hat on, we may end up miles from here..." - Kurt Vonnegut
I frequently take my mandolin from Reno (high desert elev. ~4000ft and dry) to the Calif. coast (sea level and much more humidity). Every time, I spend the entire time in Calif. tuning down my instrument. When I return to Reno, it usually takes 5-7 days of tuning back up to stabilize. I have an octave, but for some reason it stays in tune much better than the mando.
NK Forster '23 Big Celtic - O
Northfield F5S
Weber Bitterroot F20-F Octave
Home built F5 (1995)
I’ll be the 2nd Sheila.....
I, half-jokingly, tell my mandolin students that unless you want everyone to know you’re a beginner before they hear you play, don’t take your mandolin out of it’s case and begin playing without first checking to see if it’s in tune.
I'm definitely a bumbling player, but my Stradolin has been in tune three days running now (yes, I checked before I started playing)
We’re in south Chandler. We sure enjoy hiking in San Tan Regional Park. Anything musical, like a good old fashioned social distancing outdoor jam, going on around here in the winter/spring months?
Play em like you know em!
Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.
Not that I have found, Dan--and my husband and I (he's on mountain dulcimer) aren't up to jamming speed yet (see what I did there?). We're a great audience, though. I don't know how many make up your "we," but it's just the two of us here and a pack of 3 friendly dogs. Always open to a gathering of other callus-fingered folks.
Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.
It's not the altitude that changes the tuning, but the moisture. Higher elevations in the Nevada mountains tend to be drier. Wood will shrink. Take the mandolin down to the California coast (hint: that's a seashore!) and it will be much more humid. Wood will expand. The effect of humidity is vastly more important, with respect to keeping a mandolin in tune, than any of the changes in pressure associated with an elevation difference.
Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.
Just accept it: Mandolin is Italian for "out of tune". You will spend 3/5ths of your life tuning so that you can play out of tune the other 50% of the time!
Hi Sheila,
I see that happen in the case for obvious reasons but I haven't noticed it on my guitars out of case. It might be happening and I didn't realize it. I just got the md305 as my first mandolin and I will pay attention to this.
BTW: I'm already itchin to get the Eastman octave mandolin!
Last edited by Ash Telecaster; Feb-01-2021 at 1:08pm.
Phoebe, my 2021 Collings MT mandolin
Dolly, my 2021 Ibanez M522 mandolin
Louise, my 193x SS Maxwell mandolin
Fiona, My 2021 GSM guitar-bodied octave resonator mandolin
Charlotte, my 2016 Eastman MDO 305 octave mandolin
And Giuliana, my 2002 Hans Schuster 505 violin, Nehenehe, my 2021 Aklot concert ukulele,
Annie, my 2022 Guild M-140 guitar, Joni, my 1963 Harmony 1215 Archtone archtop guitar,
Yoko, my ca. 1963 Yamaha Dynamic No.15 guitar, and Rich, my 1959 husband.
Bookmarks