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Thread: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

  1. #1
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    Default My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    In Feb. 2019, during a visit to Dallas, TX, I bought a used mandolin at a local store specializing in stringed instruments: a JBovier a F5 from before 2010. The price was good, and I liked the sound. They put on new strings for me and also set it up to my satisfaction.

    There was no label inside the body. Okay, I thought, things like that may happen. I took a photo of the mandolin and sent it off to Jeff Cowherd to ask for further identification. He wrote back on the same day that my mandolin was not one of his, that it was a fake.

    That was a shock both for me and for the man who sold me the instrument. He had bought it from a friend, a guitar manufacturer, whose instruments were built in Asia. He promised he'd clarify the origin of my knock-off...two years have passed without any info.

    Still, the mandolin is well-constructed and has a nice tone. Here and there the finish is not perfect. But really, that's a minor issue.

    Does anyone have an idea how a good quality fake comes into existence? Could it be that the instrument was originally built at the JBovier workshop in S. Korea but was rejected because of the finish?

    I mean, who would go through the trouble of counterfeiting niche brands? If anything a Gibson, Ibanez etc. etc.

    The price was right and I've been playing the instrument with pleasure for two years. It's my traveling instrument. Otherwise I have a Gibson A1 from 1916 which I play only at home, home being Munich, Germany.

    Servus

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  2. #2
    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    I'll be honest, I don't know why anyone would counterfeit an Ibanez let alone a JBovier but I'd be looking really hard at the factory where JBover mandolins are produced. That's a whole lot of trouble to go to for a not really large return.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  4. #3
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    I should go and examine my Rogue to put my mind at ease now that I have been made aware that it could be a knock off.
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  6. #4

    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    I often see, in the guitar world, that having builds done of instruments, effect pedals and other gear in factories in some parts of Asia (China, mostly) is sometimes followed by a wave of similar gear being offered which looks identical, but with a different paint job or inlays.

    I'd assume an extra or a few extras were built alongside the ones Jeff commissioned, with his inlay, then sold on the side before he got it in hand to do the final set-up.

    You see the Gold Tone instrument style in knock-offs a lot.

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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    I guess it all comes down to perspective. Depending on their weekly wage, 25-50 bucks profit may be worth it. The one that really gets me is the counterfeit strings, but, I guess if you sell enough of them, it adds up. Again, perspective...
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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Unscrupulous types who counterfeit paper money, don't make $1 or $5 bills. They make $50's and $100's. That's where their profit is.

    I'd expect that a "mandolin counterfeiter" would build a "Gibson," not a solid but not top-rank brand like JBovier. Still, if you started out to copy an instrument, but didn't have access to a Gibson to copy, you might copy whatever was available, including the logo.

    I'd have to guess the profit margin on a counterfeit JBovier could hardly be worth the cost and effort that went into making the copy -- especially when the result was a good-quality instrument, implying that the copyist had to obtain good materials, and put in a lot of work to produce the instrument.

    Any chance it could be a factory "second" that somehow escaped, or a mandolin that was grabbed "off the line" by an employee who sold it privately, before it went through the final steps of its manufacture?
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Thanks to all for sharing your ideas. I tend to agree with Allen Hopkins that the instrument was a factory "second", removed from the assembly line before completion. Maybe shortly before completion - which would explain the lack of the JBovier label. a little glue here, a little glue there and voilà! A finished knock-off to be sold on the sly - as CES thinks - at a price above the 25-50 dollars a week a person could earn in the factory - in this case probably in S. Korea, where the instruments were manufactured back then. But what the hell. I got it for a good price and it has a nice sound and nice feel to it. Unless the store owner in Dallas gets back to me with new info, my JBovier knock-off will remain a mystery. I wrote back to Jeff Cowherd, after receiving his sobering mail, asking him whether the instrument might have been a rejected "B" instrument from the factory. He never responded.

    Servus

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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth area and am curious as to where you bought it (though if you're uncomfortable saying so, that's ok). I've been to pretty much every shop around here that sells mandolins (not very many!) and have never seen a J. Bovier in person. Dallas is a big city, but Charley's over off Harry Hines and Royal is about he only place I've ever seen a quality mandolin on the wall.
    ...

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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Well Caleb, I'm kinda speechless. I don't want to give anyone a bad name for an unintentional error. I'm sure the seller in question was convinced that he was giving me a good buy. In fact, I'm very convinced. I did however have the feeling that mandolins weren't selling well in Feb. 2019 which is probably why I got a good price. And you're right - at least in my experience most of the purveyors of fine instrument in Dallas are not well-stocked in quality mandolins... I'll leave it like that and let you fill in the dots.

    By the way: Charley's is a super shop. You really feel at home there. Nice atmosphere. Getting into the right lane to exit the Dallas N. Tollway is the only tricky part.

    Servus

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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Quote Originally Posted by Servus View Post
    Well Caleb, I'm kinda speechless. I don't want to give anyone a bad name for an unintentional error. I'm sure the seller in question was convinced that he was giving me a good buy. In fact, I'm very convinced. I did however have the feeling that mandolins weren't selling well in Feb. 2019 which is probably why I got a good price. And you're right - at least in my experience most of the purveyors of fine instrument in Dallas are not well-stocked in quality mandolins... I'll leave it like that and let you fill in the dots.

    By the way: Charley's is a super shop. You really feel at home there. Nice atmosphere. Getting into the right lane to exit the Dallas N. Tollway is the only tricky part.

    Servus
    Understood. I felt weird even asking, and in hindsight see I really shouldn’t have.

    Charley’s acoustic room is really great. Last time I was in there I stayed about an hour and struck up a nice conversation with the sales guy. He started dragging rare guitars out of the closet to let me play—stuff I’d only ever seen online and in magazines. They had two or three Collings mandolins on the wall too. A really wonderful local shop.
    ...

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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    It was a fair question. I might have asked it too if the shoe was on the other foot. It's nice to know that there's at least one independent music shop in Dallas. Hope it stays open for a long time. Here in Munich we are currently in lockdown mode, meaning any businesses that are not essential (food, pharmacy, newspapers) are closed. At least we are not confined to home. You can walk as far as your feet, your bicycle or public transportation can carry you.

    Servus

  15. #12

    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    It actually looks great and I reckon must have come from the Factory one way or another. No disrespect to Jeff but, as previous comments, if you are going to copy, copy a Gibson or such. Maybe an employee or a second with some minor imperfection.

    If it plays and sounds as good as it looks then brilliant.

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    Mando accumulator allenhopkins's Avatar
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Now the question is, how did a JBovier knock-off get to Dallas TX? There's a story there, one that we'll probably never know.
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Turns out I do have an answer to that one. At least, it's the answer I received at the time, and it goes like this: A guitar manufacturer who works out of Asia (China?) bought the instrument for his father in Dallas. After a few years this manufacturer sold his father's instrument (the father stopped playing? Died? I don't know) to the shop-owner who in turn sold it to me. It's a chain alright, but somelinks seem a bit rusty to me. Most important: the initial link, i.e. in Asia, is unclear. There may still have been a few transactions between production and purchase by the guitar manufacturer.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    There is a Texas based seller that has been active under two or three names for years that buys factory left overs from a family member in Korea. He's not in Dallas. A few of us purchased really nice H-5 style no name mandola's a few years ago from him. If there's one person with a connection like that there could be more. It's not all that unusual.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    No J Bovier named factory, I suspect , more like a contract with a company , and part of the contract details is the brand name choice..

    working in the Bicycle industry , I noted many years ago the willingness of Pac Rim companies,

    That would put Your Name on It , If you ordered a big enough production run..
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  23. #17
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Maybe it's really a JBouvier and belonged to the former first lady?
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Quote Originally Posted by mrmando View Post
    Maybe it's really a JBouvier and belonged to the former first lady?
    Does it show up on the Zapruder tapes? You might be onto something here.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
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  25. #19
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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    No matter what, you’ve got a cool mandolin with a unique backstory. The mystery of it all makes it even more fun. Play it in good health.
    ...

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    Default Re: My mysterious JBovier Knock-off

    Thanks, Caleb, that's what I think too. I appreciate all the commentaries I've received concerning this small mystery.

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