Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: First Bandolim

  1. #1

    Default First Bandolim

    Hey all, this is my first post, but I've been reading MandolinCafe for the past 6 months or so and I love the discussions you all have here. I'm reposting this from a Facebook group some of you may be a part of; like many newbies here, I could use some help finding an instrument.

    I've played guitar since I was a little kid, but I've recently gotten into mandolin. I got started learning the classic intro bluegrass tunes on a 1970's Japanese f5 copycat from Lyle that I found on craigslist for a fair price, and it's actually a pretty decent instrument. However, I've started taking choro lessons, and I'm pretty into it. I think it would be cool to get a mando that fits the style better.

    I would love your recommendations! I've looked all over the cafe for ideas, and for price point I've been eying the Giannini GBSM series, thinking I could find one used in the $200-$500 range, depending on the model. Ideally, I'd love a GBSM5 as I feel like the hand-made solid wood instrument will give me something that I won't want to upgrade for a while. However, I haven't been able to find one for sale yet, and their US operation seems to be in a state of flux at the moment. Other than that, I'm not sure what else to look at.

    I'd like to stay under $1k. While I'm willing to spend more to jump on good deal (I'd love a luthier built bandolim), I'm more than happy buying something similar to the GBSM 3 and saving up for a really nice one when I have more experience. A used GBSM3 just sold for ~$400 on Ebay, but that felt a bit high, so I decided to wait. I like my chances, but would love your input.

    Other considerations:
    - No need for electronics- I'd rather have a nicer instrument.
    - Modern or vintage works, but I'd really like it to be ready to play. For a screaming deal, I'd be open to taking it somewhere to get it work done, but I don't even know a luthier near me so this might be a gamble without a good recommendation (I'm in Oakland, CA)
    - Maybe this is a side effect of being a guitarist, but I can't help but feel like I would benefit from a wider fretboard. My mando is super narrow at the nut, which seems to be typical of these style. I believe the Gianninis are 1 3/16" at the nut, which I think I'd prefer, but it's not super important if the thing plays great.
    - Must immediately make me as good as Danilo Brito.


    Thanks all for reading, and for your help! Happy plucking!

    - Nick

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PluckMeRunning For This Useful Post:


  3. #2

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Welcome to the café! I had a Giannini GBSM-something... its larger dimensions were appreciated. The extra resonance of the larger body is an asset in Brazilian music. I eventually traded it for a saxophone, which is too bad because now 10 years later I play a lot of Brazilian music ..

  4. The following members say thank you to catmandu2 for this post:


  5. #3
    Registered User Randi Gormley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,379

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    I own two bandolims, one i picked up from a small independent music store for under $500 and the other from what amounted to a second-hand store for $85, so they are out there. The younger Giannini is my avatar. It's the less expensive one of the Giannini family (my ABSM is long discontinued) but it has a lovely ring, so I wouldn't count that out.
    --------------------------------
    1920 Lyon & Healy bowlback
    1923 Gibson A-1 snakehead
    1952 Strad-o-lin
    1983 Giannini ABSM1 bandolim
    2009 Giannini GBSM3 bandolim
    2011 Eastman MD305

  6. The following members say thank you to Randi Gormley for this post:


  7. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    800

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Just curious but what exactly is a bandolim,? I Goggled it and Wikipedia says it's a 15 stringed instrument, three strings per course tuned like a guitar from Ecuador. Some youtube videos show a 10 string instrument and some show an eight string version yet all use the spelling Bandolim. The spell check on my computer says it must be some other word I'm trying to spell. So anyway I like the 15 string one. Thanks

  8. #5

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Quote Originally Posted by Hudmister View Post
    Just curious but what exactly is a bandolim
    Bandolim is just the Portuguese word for mandolin. It's my understanding that in the US market the word is specifically used to refer to a mandolin made in the Brazilian style. (like the one in Randi Gormley's avatar above).

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to PluckMeRunning For This Useful Post:


  10. #6
    Registered User Chris W.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    New Smyrna Beach, Fla
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    I’m into the Choro thing as well. I love the sound that my Northfield F5S makes, but like you I wanted something that sounds more like the recordings I’m listening to. After searching the web and investigating threads here I concluded that it is very difficult to find a decent Bandolim right now. So I decided to get a good quality flat top mandolin. I ended up with a Canadian built Sawchyn Beaver Tail. I’ve never played a Bandolim, so I really can’t compare, but I think it sounds great for choro. It has a nice punchy attack on the high end and a decent low end tone. The main difference I hear from recordings of bandolims is that the bandolim is much more resonant.
    Northfield NF-5S
    Sawchyn Beaver Tail
    Eastman MD 605
    Eastwood Mandocaster
    Hora Irish Bouzouki

  11. #7

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Thanks Chris! That's interesting, I have also had a hard time tracking them down, and have expanded the search in a similar way.

    I can see the similarities between the Beaver Tail and a Brazilian mandolin, so I'll keep my eyes out for one of those too! I was also looking at the Northfield Calhoun, which a lot of people on this site rave about. Plus I think they seem like a really cool company. For multiple reasons, however, I am pretty strict about buying used (everything, not just instruments). Sadly not many of the Calhouns seem to hit the used market, which I suppose is a good indicator of quality!

    I have read good things about Flatiron pancake models, and they have a cool history. There was recently a 1N from 1982 on my local Craigslist, but at $650 it didn't make me want to give up on finding a proper bandolim. Checking the forums, people love them, bust most of the discussions are older and suggested that price was a little high. It sold pretty quick, so perhaps that's incorrect!

    While not a dealbreaker, I've also found that most of these mandos have a standard nut width, but that doesn't sound like it's been an issue for you!

  12. #8
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Bandolims are different in tone, usually are strung fairly light and low action. If you find one without a case good luck on finding a case that fits. Their bodies are wider than North American style mandolins. I have a used maple one built by a small shop Brazilian maker who has since passed away. I bought it from a prominent American choro player. And I have another one I can determine the maker of and one built by Del Vecchio, a Brazilian company that is more know for their resonator instruments. I have a cavaquinho by Giannini (all solid wood) and another by Rozini which is a competitor of Giannini selling in the same price range.

    Frankly, these days when I want to play a choro tune, I am just as happy to play it on my regular day-to-day mandolins. As an alternative to getting a cheaper laminated instrument I would work on your choro chops, save your money and if you are still enamored of the music, then get yourself a quality instrument. I do enjoy the subtle differences in mandolins that are specific to a genre but they are subtle and there is no reason you can't play choro on any mandolin. Just my dois centavos.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jim Garber For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    388

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    I just found and got a bandolim last week. I'd been searching here in the states for well over a year, but missed out on a couple. Found one for sale in Florida and immediately drove down to see it & play it and buy it. It was above my budget but I got it anyway because I didn't want to miss this opportunity.

    IT IS AMAZING! Now I can play the phrases I was struggling with and it sounds like the bandolim I hear in recordings. It has the tone and the sustain. It is more resonant than F and A models. The seller also had a Gibson Master Model (a real one) and a Northfield Calhoun, so I compared back to back the same melodies on the American mandolins against the handmade Brazilian bandolim. Day and night difference in tone and playability for the choro genre (in my opinion).

    Shorter scale. Lighter strings. Different woods. Different body shape and depth. A bandolim is not the same instrument as a mandolin. They are siblings by different fathers or maybe cousins. You get the point.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	vv8e4lyg2zefcwocghhg.jpg 
Views:	126 
Size:	464.2 KB 
ID:	199482Click image for larger version. 

Name:	uqqksfa6zrkkj8vpddwk.jpg 
Views:	191 
Size:	457.6 KB 
ID:	199483Click image for larger version. 

Name:	wgdvzfpoiinc5rq7slsv.jpg 
Views:	97 
Size:	399.1 KB 
ID:	199484Click image for larger version. 

Name:	hoeryiadakgtio5hoouc.jpg 
Views:	125 
Size:	312.2 KB 
ID:	199485

    I couldn't figure out why I was having such a difficult time to play some of the ornamentation that Brazilian choro players use so effortlessly in the melody. It was just a struggle for me on both of my F models. Instantly I could play better on the bandolim. Did I say shorter scale and lighter strings?

    I had thought about flying down to Brazil to find one in person, with the help of my teacher, but the pandemic is still raging and Brazil has a worse track record for infections and deaths than the USA. And my teacher said that even there it is hard to find one of good quality. She definitely recommended a bandolim made by an independent luthier as opposed to a factory made instrument.

    Oh, and nut width. It's 1 3/16" at the nut, same as my wide neck Big Mon, but the strings are spaced slightly different. Same nut width but slightly different spacing. Feels great to play.

    In conclusion, for me (I repeat "for me"), having an authentic bandolim has allowed me to seriously improve my choro skills immediately. So I quote Jim Garber above, "As an alternative to getting a cheaper laminated instrument I would work on your choro chops, save your money and if you are still enamored of the music, then get yourself a quality instrument." Heck, that's good advice for any genre of music.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Nnz...ew?usp=sharing
    Last edited by Nashville; Feb-13-2022 at 3:59pm. Reason: additional thoughts

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Nashville For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Registered User DavidKOS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    North CA
    Posts
    5,020

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Beautiful!

    "Did I say shorter scale and lighter strings?"

    "tone and the sustain"

    There's a connection to Italian style...and a bit of that Portuguese thing. Reminds me that I need to get back to practicing some choros and chorinhos.

    All the best.

  17. #11
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Nashville: who is the maker of your new lily acquired bandolim?
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  18. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    388

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Nashville: who is the maker of your new lily acquired bandolim?
    It belonged to the great Choro player Ronaldo do Bandolim, who in 1973 replaced the late master, Jacob do Bandolim, in his band Época de Ouro (Golden Age).

    The story is that Jacob's #1 bandolim was made by luthier Vicente who had as an assistant the luthier Silvestre. So Silvestre was a young apprentice when he helped build Jacob’s #1 bandolim. The Bandolim I just acquired was made by Silvestre on his own at the end of his career in an attempt to build a Bandolim for Ronaldo like the one he remembered building for Jacob. It uses the same woods and construction methods. It’s not identical, but it’s close from what I'm told. Ronaldo did have a pickup installed which I have not tested yet. According to Ronaldo it was built about 30 years ago. Since he is approaching retirement age he decided to sell a few of his collection.

    This is why I decided to buy it even though it was over my budget. Well that and the fact that it plays like a dream and sounds simply wonderful.

    Ronaldo do Bandolim:


  19. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Nashville For This Useful Post:


  20. #13
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Westchester, NY
    Posts
    30,753

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Ah I saw that one. I thought it could be a good choice.
    Jim

    My Stream on Soundcloud
    Facebook
    19th Century Tunes
    Playing lately:
    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

  21. #14
    Registered User J.C. Bryant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, Missouri
    Posts
    460

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Congratulations! I see that somehow, it, or one like it, is steill listed on Reerb.

    https://reverb.com/item/46207323-pro...do-do-bandolim

  22. #15
    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Rockville, MD
    Posts
    1,919
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: First Bandolim

    Did one of those two luthiers make the 10-string Hamilton de Holanda used on the Jacob tribute "Jacob Bossa"? That is a great instrument, much richer and sweeter than his regular one (Ribeiro?).
    Bandcamp -- https://tomwright1.bandcamp.com/
    Videos--YouTube
    Sound Clips--SoundCloud
    The viola is proof that man is not rational

  23. The following members say thank you to Tom Wright for this post:


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •