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Thread: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

  1. #26
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Thanks Pat for the clarification.

    It is subtle and yet different with the difference in tone from the different back tone woods. The MD504 just doesn't do it quite for me and it has maple back and sides. Maybe after it was played for a long time it might come good. Your Mike Black might be an exception and so might some MT2-Os.
    Nic Gellie

  2. #27
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    Your Mike Black might be an exception and so might some MT2-Os.
    I would wonder whether this instance might be one in which you see the value of an independent builder or small shop paying attention to the details as opposed to a larger factory producing a high volume of instruments.
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  3. #28
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    I would wonder whether this instance might be one in which you see the value of an independent builder or small shop paying attention to the details as opposed to a larger factory producing a high volume of instruments.
    Well it all depends whether one can afford the independent builder or small shop or not.

    I started this thread so that people who are on a budget can see that they can get almost more or less the same result with a cheaper quality mandolin. Yes in the past I have gone for independent builders and a lot of the time I came away feeling that despite paying more for the product I was not getting exactly what I wanted. I have also reevaluated mandolin acquisition syndrome in the light of having less money to play around with.

    I will give you an example. I paid quite a lot for some really beautifully made Irish Bouzoukis say for instance Phil Crump, Andy Tobin, Ruben Bada, and Joe Foley. I then bought a PT-305 Carvalho Irish Bouzouki for 1/5th the price of these. The playability and tone of this Portuguese Bouzouki pretty much reaches the standard of the boutique makers with far less fancier woods. Carvalho instruments make some wonderful mandolins, mandolas, and bouzoukis as well as other instruments. While they are not perfect, they get the job done with the right build quality. I can get almost the same tone as I could get with the more bouzoukis.

    I have had a similar experience with Eastman mandolins and I only have had two and these are the ones I have now. They do the job well. I get lots of player satisfaction with these. First, I have not invested much. Second, when I play them they give me good feedback as a musician like the PT-305 bouzouki. I have three instruments which in toto are about the same value as a second-hand Collings MT mandolin bought in the USA in USD.

    Folks on the cafe can extol the virtues of boutique makers in the USA because in part they need to find some form of justification for their beautiful instruments and in part because they believe because they paid more it should be much better. I would love to own a Gilchrist oval hole mandolin (Model 1). However I am not willing to pay $10,000 USD (13,200 AUD excluding 10% GST) for a mandolin which gets perhaps 10% improvement over an Eastman 404 sound and playability. You pay for the name on the headstock pretty much and the Gilchrist logo is really nicely done.

    So if you can afford it go for it. I suppose with the madness that goes with owning mandolins just buyer beware. Because I have made a few mandolins I know how much effort goes into them. I appreciate the work that any builder puts into their mandolin building and I would like them to be rewarded appropriately for their efforts.

    I also can modify an instrument to make it better. I have done it with violins, Irish Bouzoukis, and mandolins. I improved the PT_305 well beyond the manufacturer's specifications and expectations because I can adjust and tweak things in a cost-effective way. So perhaps I know a little more than most instrument buyers and I need to learn more. I don't stop. I can pick up a violin and play it for 30 seconds to appreciate its value to a musician. The same goes with a mandolin or an Irish bouzouki. My eye can find the flaws in an instrument pretty quickly. Sometimes I keep my overall appraisal to myself so as not to offend the owner.

    That is my two pennies' worth.
    Nic Gellie

  4. #29
    Likes quaint instruments poul hansen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    ...........
    I also can modify an instrument to make it better. I have done it with violins, Irish Bouzoukis, and mandolins. I improved the PT_305 well beyond the manufacturer's specifications and expectations because I can adjust and tweak things in a cost-effective way. So perhaps I know a little more than most instrument buyers and I need to learn more. I don't stop...............

    That is my two pennies' worth.
    Very interesting. I'm looking for a modern mandolin sounding like Gibson A 1924 I heard on Youtube. Can you give a hint of which one to buy and what to do to it?

    PS: I've done some restauration work to both guitars and mandolins.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

  5. #30
    My Florida is scooped pheffernan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Gellie View Post
    I have also reevaluated mandolin acquisition syndrome in the light of having less money to play around with.
    There is no doubt that some fine music (and good fun!) can be made with modest instruments, and that the relative value of a superior mandolin is a personal judgment based on one’s aims and means. But MAS is a funny thing that takes many forms. Sometimes it convinces you to sell your Eastmen to try out various Breedloves on your way to owning some Collings, all with the goal of seeing how much you can get for your money. At other times it persuades you to sell your Collings to try out various Breedloves on your way to owning some Eastmen, all with the goal of seeing how much you can get for your money. Regardless, if you have one mandolin for sale in the classifieds and one NMD thread in the forum, you can be certain that you continue to suffer from mandolin acquisition syndrome!
    1924 Gibson A Snakehead
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    2009 Passernig A5
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  6. #31
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by poul hansen View Post
    Very interesting. I'm looking for a modern mandolin sounding like Gibson A 1924 I heard on Youtube. Can you give a hint of which one to buy and what to do to it?

    PS: I've done some restoration work to both guitars and mandolins.
    Hi Poul

    You will get close to that sound with an Eastman 404 more than the 504 in my opinion. First you need to do with any mandolin you intend to purchase is to get someone to sight down the neck and see if the fingerboard is straight all the way from the nut to the end of the fingerboard at the bridge end. That will tell you how well the straightness of the neck with the fingerboard extension over the neck. If you do it in person all the better. I am in Spain where mandolins are not a common instrument ( they are in Portugal). If it is nice and straight that is the first criterion passed.

    The second is to see if any of the frets rise above the general level of the others (i.e. the fret may not be bedded down properly). Third make sure that the nut and bridge slots are correctly slotted for perfect intonation and minimal buzzing at the end of the strings. I have a Breedlove KO mandolin which the D string sharper than all the other courses when fretted. The G, A, and E string are pretty near perfect so the imperfection could be in the bridge saddle. I Have left it for the moment.
    Nic Gellie

  7. #32
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by pheffernan View Post
    There is no doubt that some fine music (and good fun!) can be made with modest instruments, and that the relative value of a superior mandolin is a personal judgment based on one’s aims and means. But MAS is a funny thing that takes many forms. Sometimes it convinces you to sell your Eastmen to try out various Breedloves on your way to owning some Collings, all with the goal of seeing how much you can get for your money. At other times it persuades you to sell your Collings to try out various Breedloves on your way to owning some Eastmen, all with the goal of seeing how much you can get for your money. Regardless, if you have one mandolin for sale in the classifieds and one NMD thread in the forum, you can be certain that you continue to suffer from mandolin acquisition syndrome!
    I bought the Breedloves to try them out and see I could glean anything from their build. I had heard they had some good features. They sure do. I was reluctant to let the FF go. I am downsizing as I sold it for about twice what I paid for the Eastman 404. The KO is going also to help pay for more wood and luthier tools. I virtually had to tweak nothing in the FF except change the action to my liking. It had Elixir strings on it which I did not bother even changing.

    As for the current Eastmans I am using them as to how much better I need to build my next instruments. They are my competition so my build and sound and playability quality has to exceed them. We are living in a very competitive world where good quality musical instruments are pretty cheap these days. I read an article in the online Guardian that the Hungarian violin makers are complaining about cheap Chinese imports and the inability to get young people into the trade ( the Gliga brand sells about 37,000 violin family instruments a year and that is in a bad year).

    So one needs to know what the competition is like. I am not going to make a fortune making and repairing instruments. I have met some fantastic instrument makers here in Europe where I have had the chance to share knowledge and skills. My family reckon I make pretty good instruments and they like the sound of them. Well, the potential market out there so far is pretty much not interested in my instruments. The first F5 I built back in Australia has a very enthusiastic second owner who will give me an enthusiastic review when I get up a website up and running. he even contacted me on Facebook to talk about his instrument and how much he enjoys it.
    Nic Gellie

  8. #33
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    I broke an E string. Bummer! It takes ages to get replacements here in Spain. So the MD505 has been put to use.
    Nic Gellie

  9. #34
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    ?? I would just go into my storeroom and fetch a new set(bought when they were on sale ;-) )
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

  10. #35
    Registered User Eric Platt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Nick, it's been fun reading your adventures with this one. And a good reminder that sometimes good enough is, well, good enough. Am reminded of watching videos of the Finnish band Tallari over the holiday season. Arto Jarvela was playing what appeared to be a Kentucky KM-150 on the tunes where he was on mandolin. Modest, but like all instruments he plays, good sounding. Fun to see a professional using what many consider an "entry level" instrument.
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  11. #36
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Platt View Post
    .............. Fun to see a professional using what many consider an "entry level" instrument.
    Isn't that label always put on cheaper instruments? If you always go by that, you will never make a bargain like my two Hora instruments, the Mandola and the Portuguese 2 that are well built and good sounding instruments at 139 euro plus shipping 39 euro.
    Kentucky KM-805..........2 Hora M1086 Portuguese II(1 in car)
    Hora M1088 Mandola.....
    Richmond RMA-110..... .Noname Bearclaw
    Pochette Franz Janisch...5 Pocket............Alfredo Privitera pocket
    Puglisi Pocket 1908........Puglisi 1912.......Puglisi 1917
    3 Mandolinetto ..............C.Garozzo
    1 Mandriola...................Cannelo G. Mandriola...Böhm Waldzither 1921
    Johs Møller 1945............Luigi Embergher Studio 1933
    Marma Seashell back......Luigi Embergher 5bis 1909

  12. #37
    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eastman 404Bk Mandolin review

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Platt View Post
    Nick, it's been fun reading your adventures with this one. And a good reminder that sometimes good enough is, well, good enough. Am reminded of watching videos of the Finnish band Tallari over the holiday season. Arto Jarvela was playing what appeared to be a Kentucky KM-150 on the tunes where he was on mandolin. Modest, but like all instruments he plays, good sounding. Fun to see a professional using what many consider an "entry level" instrument.
    I am glad you have appreciated my musings on mandolin family instruments. I have enjoyed writing about my experiences living here in the Alpuharras in Spain and before that in Galicia. I too have found joy in modest good instruments.

    I was playing the other day with Baron Collings Hill on several of his playalong mandolin tunes.
    It was interesting comparing the MD505 with his Ellis A5. I could detect where the varnish finish gave his Ellis a slight edge over my 505. Other than that they were pretty comparable. I would say my 505 had more cut in the trebles. It is only new and should get better through time.

    I will get some E strings tomorrow so I will be back to the MD404. I have deepened the nut slots slightly to help with playability.
    Nic Gellie

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