Which way do musicians make more money?

[mandocrucian]

x x

[Bob Buckingham]

Streaming is a ripoff to the artists. Buy either the CD or the download to benefit them. I speak from experience.

[Southern Man]

My musician friend's tell me that the best way to support them is to buy tickets to their shows. The second best way is to buy a copy of their album at shows. The next best way is to buy merch from them at shows. They get more money through these direct sales. Next would be ordering something via their website or a third party website (CDbaby, Amazon, etc). They pretty much all hate streaming and say they get next to no money from it. These are folks who are full time touring musicians in well-respected bands, playing clubs and festivals, but not huge headliners.

I am kind of a completist, so when I find a band that I like, I try to purchase all of their works on CD.

[journeybear]

'Twas ever thus - or so it seems. I believe there have been times when it hasn't been so, when musicians were revered or at least respected, and possibly even well-compensated for their efforts. I understand there were some success stories during the Golden Age Of Rock, the mid-1960s-mid-1970s, when many musicians were considered with the same awe as movie stars - though stories also abound of musicians being victimized by unscrupulous music biz types, even some of the most famous and beloved ones. Perhaps back in the Middle Ages and into the pre-Renaissance days, when traveling troubadours were admired for their ability to disseminate news as they travelled, and some found employment in the courts of kings and also lesser nobles. I imagine, though, that would still be a small percentage of working musicians. I have read accounts of ill-treatment and scorn concerning musicians during the Classical period. The prevailing attitude seems to have been that they were a drunken, lazy, irresponsible lot, scoundrels who could only play their parts in an orchestra if sheet music were placed in front of their bleary eyes. This sort of insulting attitude continues to this day, despite all the adulation heaped upon pop stars.

It's disenchanting, depressing, and demoralizing to think of how many people make money off of musicians. Especially when you take into account there would be no music, no music business, no music in the background that you can take for granted and ignore all you want, if it weren't for musicians making music in the first place.

[maxr]

That's all great stuff, journeybear, thanks. Even further OT, this conch thing - There's something I been wondering about. In some places, when discussing stuff informally, a person will hand the discussion over to you saying "You got the conch". Anyone know where that comes from?

[journeybear]

Yes sir, I do, though I have never heard that in a conversation, not even hereabouts. Reason being, it's got nothing to do with Conch Culture, Key West variant, but is a reference to and inference from a novel - William Golding's "Lord Of The Flies." In it, a plane carrying dozens of British schoolboys crashes on or near a Pacific island. A conch is found and used to call everyone together for meetings. Whoever holds the conch has the power to speak and all else must pay attention, as agreed upon by the boys. This power is conferred upon whoever holds it, which is passed around as each one who wishes to, speaks. Perhaps this anecdotal term is stronger in the UK than the US, the book and subsequent movie originating from there, as well as the plot, etc. The book was published in 1954, the movie released in 1963. It's a bit surprising this has gained that much staying power.

[Paul Kotapish]

The chart above is about a year old, but you'll note the very highest paying services only offer about a penny a play. The $.35/play figure suggested in a post above was off by two decimal places. It's just a fraction of a penny for most services, and just next to nothing for YouTube plays.

When I was touring and gigging regularly, sales of product (vinyl or cassettes in the early days, CDs later) used to account for a significant portion of my annual music revenue. Royalties from sales through stores or third-party services were a much smaller percentage. And for most of my groups, the CDs were self-produced and distributed, so all profits (once production and manufacturing costs were paid off) flowed directed into the band's coffers.

If an artists is selling product and you want to support them, buy directly from them or via their website.

[journeybear]

KEB clarified that by reiterating he'd said .35 cents - that's not $.35 nor 35 cents - so I hope there's no more confusion there.

BTW, the alt code for the cents (¢) sign is Alt + 0162. It helps.

I just have one more thing to say about that chart: GAHHH!!!

[Sue Rieter]

This has been an informative discussion. I'm a big fan of buying local and eliminating middlepersons whenever possible anyway, and will continue to go to directly to artists and/or their websites whenever possible.

Taking up mandolin this past year introduced me to tons of new music. I bought a lot of CDs, as somehow a download seems kind of ephemeral; also the hard drive on my computer is filling up fast. I look forward to the day I can go to some live shows and I really like the idea of buying music on a thumb drive (because I don't have a CD drive on my new computer). And I would definitely consider buying a thumbdrive recording of a show I just attended.

[desertnight]

The chart above is about a year old, but you'll note the very highest paying services only offer about a penny a play. The $.35/play figure suggested in a post above was off by two decimal places. It's just a fraction of a penny for most services, and just next to nothing for YouTube plays.

When I was touring and gigging regularly, sales of product (vinyl or cassettes in the early days, CDs later) used to account for a significant portion of my annual music revenue. Royalties from sales through stores or third-party services were a much smaller percentage. And for most of my groups, the CDs were self-produced and distributed, so all profits (once production and manufacturing costs were paid off) flowed directed into the band's coffers.

If an artists is selling product and you want to support them, buy directly from them or via their website.

Thanks Paul!

[journeybear]

... I don't have a CD drive on my new computer ...

I always get one whenever I buy a new computer. I consider it required equipment for musicians playing in bars, clubs, restaurants - wherever tip jars and CD sales provide extra income streams. The ability to burn CDs for sale is a necessary part of that. It's a deal-breaker for me. I have no idea what I'll do if CDs ever become completely outmoded, and computers with CD drives are no longer being produced. I know thumb drives are mighty convenient - pocket size, contain tons of extra info - but CDs can contain the same info.

I really like being able to hold something in my hand, to look at while I'm listening. I miss LPs for this reason. I got used to CDs, even with their smaller size and often much smaller print. I'd be reluctant to leave that behind.

Is there anyone here who sells their music in thumb drive form? Is there a way to put something like album art on them? It seems to me one way to help sales is to have product that is colorful and unique, instantly identifiable as your work. It's not too difficult to do that when duplicating your own CDs. Just wonder if the thumb drive equivalent exists. Thanks in advance.

[Sue Rieter]

I always get one whenever I buy a new computer. I consider it required equipment for musicians playing in bars, clubs, restaurants - wherever tip jars and CD sales provide extra income streams. The ability to burn CDs for sale is a necessary part of that. It's a deal-breaker for me. I have no idea what I'll do if CDs ever become completely outmoded, and computers with CD drives are no longer being produced. I know thumb drives are mighty convenient - pocket size, contain tons of extra info - but CDs can contain the same info.

When I was shopping for computers recently, there weren't too many with CD drives (or ethernet ports either, but that's a different discussion). My new laptop's not custom, but it is reasonably high end, as I'm still doing some graphics work. I've got a USB CD drive that does the job, but I wish it were integrated. I would've preferred to keep my old machine if it had been workable.

Is there anyone here who sells their music in thumb drive form? Is there a way to put something like album art on them? It seems to me one way to help sales is to have product that is colorful and unique, instantly identifiable as your work. It's not too difficult to do that when duplicating your own CDs. Just wonder if the thumb drive equivalent exists. Thanks in advance.

I'm also interested in this question. Thumb drives come in lots of form factors. Stickers on the outside? Definitely cover artwork and liner notes as part of the contents.

[journeybear]

I hear you. When I had to replace my last one a year or two ago I was pleasantly surprised to find a new one with everything I wanted in my price range. I've heard CD drives are being phased out. I sure hope not. Next time I might have to buy two computers and tuck one away!

[A-board]

Apologies for diverting from topic.

Many musicians build serious teaching time into their schedules. Locally, some of the most active performing musicians have had long-time teaching positions in public school systems. And then there are those with online courses or those who teach at esteemed schools such as Berklee.

[Sue Rieter]

Apologies for diverting from topic.

Many musicians build serious teaching time into their schedules. Locally, some of the most active performing musicians have had long-time teaching positions in public school systems. And then there are those with online courses or those who teach at esteemed schools such as Berklee.

Well, these are other ways musicians can make a living, so not really a diversion.

[MontanaMatt]

Right now, unemployment insurance...
My band makes $$ from gigging. (100+ shows a year for 16 yrs, until last season)
As for cd sales...
It took us a long time to sell 1000 cds at gigs. The first 2 or 3 hundred went to production cost. The rest paid for gas, rooms, food, beer, gear...we never distributed profits, it just went into the slush fund.

As for other jobs, my band mates both work for a residential and commercial a/v installation company, one also teaches at local music school, and I’m an Organic Veggie and Beef Farmer(never a starving artist)
I used to teach private music lessons (sabbatical for raising my own kids, 2 and 5 yr)

[journeybear]

Apologies for diverting from topic.

No worries. All part of the topic, or the underlying issue - generating income from music somehow and maximizing this income - somehow. Day jobs have been an integral part of providing financial support for and by musicians since forever. It's a plus when that is also in the field of music. Teaching is definitely one way. I was a music librarian at a music school once, which helped broaden my knowledge of music. And also, being immersed in music during my work day was a joy. The museum job I mentioned earlier is the only time I've gotten paid at work for playing music. I may not have emphasized how rare that is, nor how much that pleased me. Most of the time playing music and making a living don't coincide as much as we'd like.

[maxr]

Thanks for explaining that Journeybear - I learn something every day that I really should have known!

[journeybear]

Aw, shucks! I don't know how well I do any of that. I just try to express what I've seen, done, and thought about, and hope someone else can relate, maybe even find something useful in it. If my experiences can help someone else sort out whatever they're going through or wondering about, that's a successful interaction. Thanks!

[MikeEdgerton]

"If you want to make money in music, get into the band uniform business."
- Henri Mancini

This popped up on my FB feed today and I thought it fit well with the conversation.

[journeybear]

That's the Professor Harold Hill method - band uniforms and instruments (plus a bit of a con).

[Sue Rieter]

Band uniforms are very weird clothing. (I marched in them for 4 years in high school in parades as well as at football games).

The hats, especially.

[kookaburra]

As a muso, I made the most money as a stagehand.

[lowtone2]

Best way to make money from music? Invest in Amazon and Apple.

There's not much demand for music anymore. Did anyone see the half time show? Maybe music will cycle back around as popular entertainment one day, maybe not.

A good friend of mine got some music on Starbucks' playlist. The big time, right? Thousands of stores, many thousands of plays, and he was paid about $25 for one year.

[maxr]

Band uniforms are very weird clothing. (I marched in them for 4 years in high school in parades as well as at football games).

The hats, especially.

Yeah - ever try a pipe band uniform? It's awful - feather bonnet, plaid fastened with brooch, military tunic, crossbelt for a sword you don't have, kilt, sporran, waist belt, socks, sock flashes, dirk in your sock, spats or silly ghillie brogues (shoes) that let the rain in. Couple that with the greatest physical effort you'll ever make playing a musical instrument and hot wet weather, and you're done!