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Thread: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

  1. #1

    Default Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    I'm considering an octave mandolin for Irish traditional playing to mix in with my standard oval hole and tenor banjo. It seems that guitar bodied OMs are more plentiful or popular than bouzouki style instruments. I guess the same sort of question could come up about f-hole vs. oval hole octave mandolins (thinking of the new Eastman f hole model) when applied to traditional Irish music. With the OM already having such a different sound compared to the standard size, are we talking subtle differences between body styles or significant differences in projection, sustain, etc?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    are we talking subtle differences between body styles or significant differences in projection, sustain, etc?
    Based on the video of Lyn Hardy's octaves in sundays thread the differences seem siginifant to me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMoe View Post
    Based on the video of Lyn Hardy's octaves in sundays thread the differences seem siginifant to me.
    That video, and others from her site, prompted my question. I thought her OM sounded great in that style of music. I don't have any comparison to what a bouzouki style OM would sound like playing the same tune, or what the Hardy mandolin would sound like playing a reel. Maybe the guitar body is just too non-traditional (whatever that means) to take to a session?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    The web videos of the various Northfields are helpfull and show a wide range of sounds. The difference between their flat top with pin bridge compaired to the F hole arch top is interesting.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    I agree. I've been watching those also.

  6. #6
    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    With the OM already having such a different sound compared to the standard size, are we talking subtle differences between body styles or significant differences in projection, sustain, etc?
    I have an Eastman OM. My neighbor plays a Pono (along with penny-whistles and hammered dulcimer). There is a big difference. The Pono's tone is a bit more like a guitar - a richer sound, and more sustain. She is a pretty hard-core Irish music fan, and doesn't play guitar, and it works perfectly for her for playing tunes and accompanying her voice.

    I bought the Eastman BECAUSE is doesn't sound anything like a guitar.

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    I've owned a Gzouk, It also sounds NOTHING like a guitar and everything like a bouzouki - but yea a different too.
    That was a forster.

    Check out Aus/UK musician James Fagan and his Sobell.... ;-) he's one man i know loves the actual sound of a bouzouki and needs it not to sound like guitar, yet the sobell gzouk is probably his favourite instrument.
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Very interesting comments. Meow-n-dolin, it sounds like the Irish trad police have not come down too hard on your neighbor with the Pono. And Lord of the Badgers, I may have missed the intent of your message, but I see James Fagan playing a guitar body, not a Sobell bouzouki style instrument as I expected. Perhaps it's a Sobell GBOM. He of course sounds great either way. It sounds like I may just have to make the leap at some point. There are not a lot of places, especially right now, to try any kind of assortment of OMs. I don't sing, so this is something to fill in the gap for me for solo and maybe joining a session at some point. I like the lower octave of my banjo and the tone of the mandolin.

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    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    I don't sing, so this is something to fill in the gap for me for solo and maybe joining a session at some point. I like the lower octave of my banjo and the tone of the mandolin.
    That is one reason I got the OM -- so I don't have to take my mando, guitar, and banjo camping - just the OM
    (It also completes my mando "family).

  10. #10

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by meow-n-dolin View Post
    That is one reason I got the OM -- so I don't have to take my mando, guitar, and banjo camping - just the OM
    (It also completes my mando "family).
    So how do you like the Eastman? Much is made of the differences between ovals and f-holes in mandolins for Irish, but I wonder if that's of as great an interest with octaves since they're so different to begin with.

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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    Perhaps it's a Sobell GBOM.
    exactly this - it's one of the holy grails amongst zouk players. He also owns a normal shaped Foley IIRC.
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    Lord of All Badgers Lord of the Badgers's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by meow-n-dolin View Post
    I have an Eastman OM. My neighbor plays a Pono (along with penny-whistles and hammered dulcimer). There is a big difference. The Pono's tone is a bit more like a guitar - a richer sound, and more sustain. She is a pretty hard-core Irish music fan, and doesn't play guitar, and it works perfectly for her for playing tunes and accompanying her voice.

    I bought the Eastman BECAUSE is doesn't sound anything like a guitar.
    maybe it's because the Pono is short scale as well - this will make it darker sounding than a gzouk.
    My name is Rob, and I am Lord of All Badgers

    Tenor Guitars: Acoustic: Mcilroy ASP10T, ‘59 Martin 0-18t. Electric: ‘57 Gibson ETG-150, ‘80s Manson Kestrel
    Mandolins: Davidson f5, A5 "Badgerlin".
    Bouzouki: Paul Shippey Axe
    My band's website

  13. #13
    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    So how do you like the Eastman? Much is made of the differences between ovals and f-holes in mandolins for Irish, but I wonder if that's of as great an interest with octaves since they're so different to begin with.
    I like it a lot. I chose it after comparing several different OMs on Youtube videos, including the Pono and I can't remember how many others. When I narrowed it down to an archtop. this is the video that sold me on the Eastman.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JiM8zoq9f20

    After playing the Eastman, I switched to standard D'addario MANDOLA strings, and it sounded a bit more like the Weber (a bit more bass). I am unsure what strings Weber uses on their OM.

    Happy hunting.

  14. #14
    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    So how do you like the Eastman? Much is made of the differences between ovals and f-holes in mandolins for Irish, but I wonder if that's of as great an interest with octaves since they're so different to begin with.
    For the rest of your question, I have both oval- and f-hole mandos, and there is a definite difference. I have also played oval-hole and f-hole 'cellos, and again, a different sound, but with the guitar body, not quite as much difference as with the mandos. I have not played an oval-hole OM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Regarding the video compairing the Eastman and the Webber, am I getting the idea if I think the webber sounds more Irish and the Eastman more country?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMoe View Post
    Regarding the video comparing the Eastman and the Webber, am I getting the idea if I think the webber sounds more Irish and the Eastman more country?
    They definitely have a different sound. The Webber sounds smoother (insert favorite words from the various mandolin sales pitches), maybe a little bassier, but not booming. The Eastman, to me, sounds brighter and almost like I'm hearing more string noise. I'd really like to hear both of them in the hands of an Irish trad player. I might go for the Eastman for that. For mellow, I'd go for the Webber, which must cost three times as much.

  17. #17
    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrMoe View Post
    Regarding the video compairing the Eastman and the Webber, am I getting the idea if I think the webber sounds more Irish and the Eastman more country?
    Good Question. I am not sure. I am not entirely sure what "Irish" is supposed to sound like LOL.
    They both have a nice "twang." Except in a head-to-head comparison, as in this example, I am not really sure I could pick out one from the other. Now, throw in the Northfield (which I would love to be able to find a way to justify purchasing), and the picture becomes even more muddy...

    Northfield OM-- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dmKVSRAEbQ

  18. #18
    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    They definitely have a different sound. The Webber sounds smoother (insert favorite words from the various mandolin sales pitches), maybe a little bassier, but not booming. The Eastman, to me, sounds brighter and almost like I'm hearing more string noise. I'd really like to hear both of them in the hands of an Irish trad player. I might go for the Eastman for that. For mellow, I'd go for the Webber, which must cost three times as much.
    Yeppers. I put a set of mandola strings on my Eastman, just a bit heavier, and it sounded a little more mellow, though a bit short of the Weber. But when I replace the strings, I will go back to the standard set of D'Addarios. In my opinion, the Eastman does "twang" a bit better than "mellow." The Weber is sweet, though.

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    Registered User meow-n-dolin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of the Badgers View Post
    maybe it's because the Pono is short scale as well - this will make it darker sounding than a gzouk.
    Yeah, that would most definitely "soften" the sound.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Based on the web videos, I had not been impressed with the Northfeild flat top. The arch top is very impressive. As to where to see and try OMs, Mandolin Bros. in NY has been on my list of stores to visit for some time.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    There are difference of course but in terms of Irish sessions:
    -Some don't want any stringed accompaniment.
    -Some are fine with stringed accompaniment but they just have too many guitarist/zouks

    If folks in the session like stringed accompaniment and they aren't overrun with too many, I can't imagine the shape of the zouk/om having any bearing on being accepted there!
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    Registered User Steve-o's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    I play a traditional flat top oval in an ITM session, and I also want a GBOM. I’ve played several of the f-hole Northfield GBOMs, and they don’t have the rounder sound and big sustain that I think is best suited for ITM. I also purchased one of the Eastman OMs when they first hit the market. I was disappointed with the sound and immediately returned it.

    I’ve concluded that the f-hole arch top OMs are more percussive and project well, but they lack the sustain, warmth, and “jangly” sound that I find more appealing for ITM. That said, I haven’t had a chance yet to play a Pono or the Northfield flat top oval GBOMs yet, but they sound closer to my traditional oval in the videos I’ve listened to.

  23. #23
    Registered User zoukboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by Parker135 View Post
    I'm considering an octave mandolin for Irish traditional playing to mix in with my standard oval hole and tenor banjo. It seems that guitar bodied OMs are more plentiful or popular than bouzouki style instruments. I guess the same sort of question could come up about f-hole vs. oval hole octave mandolins (thinking of the new Eastman f hole model) when applied to traditional Irish music. With the OM already having such a different sound compared to the standard size, are we talking subtle differences between body styles or significant differences in projection, sustain, etc?
    No reason why you can't use a GBOM and make it work for Irish traditional music. Since you are using that term, do you plan to keep it in GDAE and play melodies on it? In that case I would say "forge ahead!" But a short scale GBOM tuned to GDAE won't sound or respond like a bouzouki, so it you want the bouzouki sound you'd need a different scale and GDAD or ADAD tuning. And if you want to avoid comparisons with bouzoukis just call it an octave mandolin. :-)

  24. #24

    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoukboy View Post
    No reason why you can't use a GBOM and make it work for Irish traditional music. Since you are using that term, do you plan to keep it in GDAE and play melodies on it? In that case I would say "forge ahead!" But a short scale GBOM tuned to GDAE won't sound or respond like a bouzouki, so it you want the bouzouki sound you'd need a different scale and GDAD or ADAD tuning. And if you want to avoid comparisons with bouzoukis just call it an octave mandolin. :-)
    I'm after an octave mandolin so I can stick with GDAE. I'm happy playing a Vega banjo with a 23" scale, so it seems like I should be able to find something in the 21-23 inch range that would work. Maybe I'll just keep watching the classifieds here to see what pops up. An old Webber might be fun.

    MrMoe above suggested Mandolin Bros in NY. Our kids are in Stamford CT and we hope to be able to visit again soon. I was thinking about checking out the Staten Island shop while we're over there, but I guess they're closed. Seems like maybe it's online only now.

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    Registered User Pete Braccio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Guitar Body Octave Mandolin for Irish?

    I’m pretty sure that Mandolin Bros. shut down years ago.
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