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Thread: Music Store Etiquette

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Bren View Post
    Stan Jay ... told me to feel free to pick up and play any instrument. ... I could have been a mandolin-smashing maniac ... guess he had a feel for that.
    Admittedly, a few REALLY expensive instruments were in a cabinet. But that did NOT include the $40,000 D'Angelico archtop that I got to savor for 10 or 12 minutes!
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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Jill, I asked the guy for pics last night! Am tempted to spring for it while still available. Haven't looked thus morning.
    It looks very nice and it would be local so you could play before buying. Ideal. I would not wait too long. The mandolins in these ads go pretty quickly.

    here’s another possibility: old wave oval A. At Elderly
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  4. #53
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    It's pretty disappointing to get yourself finally psyched up and then it's gone. Actually happened to me this morning on a CL item, but it was a real lark (a lute guitar - and I don't play guitar at all), so I'll get over it pretty fast. YMMV.

  5. #54
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    It's still there right now, Could be just the ticket for you if you are interested. I hear the Twilight Zone theme playing now.

    Here's my unsolicited advice FWIW: If interested, respond to the ad right away, ask if you can call, tell him you might be interested in buying this one and you'd like to see it. Ask him to play it over the phone for a minute or two. Ideally, you need to go play it, so make an appointment to see it right away. If you decide to buy it, whether in person or by mail, ask if he can give you 3 or 4 days to return it and refund the purchase if you decide you don't want it for whatever reason. Once in hand, immediately take it to your luthier to look it over since it is a used instrument. Pay him for that service, or tip him very generously. Return it if you have any doubts about it. Or keep it until you are sure. It is probably already listed toward the top of it's value, and imo the price is about right if it is in good shape (but I haven't researched it). Responding to your other thread, you could always make a reasonable offer and see what he says.

    Good luck.
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  7. #55
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    It looks very nice and it would be local so you could play before buying. Ideal. I would not wait too long. The mandolins in these ads go pretty quickly.

    here’s another possibility: old wave oval A. At Elderly
    Jim, unfortunately, I can't get to Austin before the weekend, so I made the offer to buy, and am hoping for the best in terms of being "the one." If it doesn't fill the bill, you'll see it back in the classifieds! I know now I'll have to invest a lot more time, effort and money to be able to try a variety of instruments. If I pick up the Weber, I can still try others as opportunities present themselves. Win win (I hope!).

    Tom, I probably should be doing all that you suggested. In a perfect world, I would have done so. My offer hasn't yet been accepted, but already I feel the pressure's off to invest even more hours than I've put into this project already.
    Last edited by Sherry Cadenhead; Mar-01-2021 at 12:05pm. Reason: Message to Tom

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Sherry, glad you put the offer in, I was going to try it out myself. Not that I need another mandolin, wanted to try an oval with the longer neck than my Gibson. You may tempt me if it is not to your liking, but I will hold off for now.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

  10. #57
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by pops1 View Post
    Sherry, glad you put the offer in, I was going to try it out myself. Not that I need another mandolin, wanted to try an oval with the longer neck than my Gibson. You may tempt me if it is not to your liking, but I will hold off for now.
    Longer neck? I'll try not to worry about that! Lol

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Most likely the same as your Alvarez, just longer than the old Gibson mandolins.
    THE WORLD IS A BETTER PLACE JUST FOR YOUR SMILE!

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    That Weber oval could easily be a lifelong keeper!
    "If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility." -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Longer neck? I'll try not to worry about that! Lol
    By longer neck pops1 means that the Weber neck joins the body at a different place than the old Gibson oval A's do - sometimes referred to as a "hybrid" oval. My Girouard would fall into that category, as do many modern oval A's.
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  16. #61
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    The advice already given in this thread is very sound, and there's no need to add to it. I would comment, however, that your expressed reliance on printed musical notation seems unfortunate, at least to me.

    This leads me to wonder: Doesn't your violin teacher have you memorize the occasional etude? Can you play anything at all from memory? Can you work out simple melodies for yourself, by ear (think "Happy Birthday" or "Mary Had a Little Lamb," etc.)? Have you learned a few basic chords, and some simple, moveable chord shapes? Can you back yourself up strumming, while singing/humming some simple, three-chord song? If these activities seem foreign to you, then I would question the utility of having a violin teacher instructing you on how to play mandolin!

    I write this because the skills that I just mentioned are among the very first things that are typically taught to most mandolin students, right out of the gate. And they are absolutely fundamental, in my opinion. Reading standard notation from sheet music is certainly a useful skill, but it's not as basic as these other things, particularly if you hope to play music with others. In fact, a great number of terrific mandolin players can't (or don't) rely on sheet music -- and when they do, it's generally used as a way to commit unfamiliar music to memory. You ought not leave your "ear training" so far behind. It is essential.

    Speaking of etiquette, I should point out that no one in the musical circles that I run in likes to see folks bring a music stand and a pile of sheet music to an informal jam! It's just not done, sorry. In a jam situation, folks are expected to play by ear. Yes, they might well bring along some printed or handwritten chord charts, or lyrics for songs, but no one sets up and reads sheet music as they play. [This comment does not apply to the informal, ensemble playing of classical music, but I would hardly call that a "jam session." It also does not apply to group rehearsals intended for public performance.]

    But returning to my theme, if your eventual goal is to play any type of folk/pop/bluegrass/blues/jazz/old-time/Celtic/Americana music with other folks there in Texas, then you really should be working on your ear training. If your violin teacher is neglecting that aspect of things in your early teaching (and, it would seem, that may be the case), I really think you ought to consider finding a real mandolin teacher -- someone who knows and plays the types of music you prefer.

    Regardless of whether you decide to find another teacher, please do not neglect your ear training. It is fundamental to becoming a mandolinist. And getting more ear training will even help you to better discern the tonal differences between mandolins, I'd wager! Good luck on your musical journey.

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post

    Regardless of whether you decide to find another teacher, please do not neglect your ear training. It is fundamental to becoming a mandolinist. And getting more ear training will even help you to better discern the tonal differences between mandolins, I'd wager! Good luck on your musical journey.
    Ear learning is the first thing taught in Suzuki violin instruction. I grew up among fiddlers who played by ear, perhaps with occasional help from sheet music, but only till they "had the tune." I've also been to a fiddle camp and to fiddle teaching sessions in which teachers didn't give out sheet music until the end of their last lesson, but would allow students to record every tune they played. In fact, in my experience, that's been the norm. Playing by ear is a fundamental skill, and everything sblock says about sessions is true, not only of California, but nearly anywhere I've played across Canada.
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  20. #63
    Registered User Sherry Cadenhead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by sblock View Post
    The advice already given in this thread is very sound, and there's no need to add to it. I would comment, however, that your expressed reliance on printed musical notation seems unfortunate, at least to me.

    This leads me to wonder: Doesn't your violin teacher have you memorize the occasional etude? Can you play anything at all from memory? Can you work out simple melodies for yourself, by ear (think "Happy Birthday" or "Mary Had a Little Lamb," etc.)? Have you learned a few basic chords, and some simple, moveable chord shapes? Can you back yourself up strumming, while singing/humming some simple, three-chord song? If these activities seem foreign to you, then I would question the utility of having a violin teacher instructing you on how to play mandolin!
    sblock, thank you for taking the time to write this message. I appreciate much about it. No, my violin teacher doesn't have me memorize anything. I can play Angeline the Baker from memory and am working on a few others. I need to work on the ear thing, for sure, and have done little to advance that aspect of my playing. I have had and continue to have occasional lessons with outstanding mandolin teachers. I can play 2 finger chords rather proficiently and am making good progress on 3 finger, moveable shapes. I can strum and sing.

    So, why do I continue with the violin teacher? Well, after my husband, she's my best friend. She needs the money and I do learn from her, much that I haven't learned from others. There's talk of starting a mandolin orchestra in my area, and I feel I'm preparing for that.

    Speaking of etiquette, I should point out that no one in the musical circles that I run in likes to see folks bring a music stand and a pile of sheet music to an informal jam! It's just not done, sorry. In a jam situation, folks are expected to play by ear. Yes, they might well bring along some printed or handwritten chord charts, or lyrics for songs, but no one sets up and reads sheet music as they play. [This comment does not apply to the informal, ensemble playing of classical music, but I would hardly call that a "jam session." It also does not apply to group rehearsals intended for public performance.]
    Ouch! Up until about 2 years ago, I played at a jam at the local senior center. Everyone had music stands. I probably was the only one with actual sheet music. I'm very sensitive to proper jam etiquette and would have quit that group, but it was friendly and they loved having an instrument other than a guitar. Last Friday night I visited a new group. No music stands, as you have suggested, and I felt totally out of my league. When taking my turns, I sang and strummed, and once played the melody of the verse as a break. Others took breaks as well on my turn. Everyone was supportive and encouraging; however, I will not join that group again, as I don't see myself rising to that level of play. I'm not being negative; I'm just not musically inclined, and struggle to do as well as I do.

    But returning to my theme, if your eventual goal is to play any type of folk/pop/bluegrass/blues/jazz/old-time/Celtic/Americana music with other folks there in Texas, then you really should be working on your ear training. If your violin teacher is neglecting that aspect of things in your early teaching (and, it would seem, that may be the case), I really think you ought to consider finding a real mandolin teacher -- someone who knows and plays the types of music you prefer.

    Regardless of whether you decide to find another teacher, please do not neglect your ear training. It is fundamental to becoming a mandolinist. And getting more ear training will even help you to better discern the tonal differences between mandolins, I'd wager! Good luck on your musical journey.
    As I mentioned, I have an occasional mandolin teacher. He attended the jam I was telling you about. Now that he's seen me in action, so to speak, I've told him I want to work on my jam skills. How much memorization I can do, being a newbie and of a certain age, I don't know. But the desire is there.
    Last edited by Sherry Cadenhead; Mar-01-2021 at 6:26pm.

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  22. #64
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    In terms of etiquette, jams, like music stores, vary. In the olden jamtime I regularly played in 2 swing/jazz jams and all the folks played from charts on some, if not all, tunes. Don’t worry about that.

    I wouldn’t bring a stand or charts to try out an instrument. I would play open strings, scales or arpeggios up and down the neck and simple tune(s) from memory. You’re just trying to evaluate the feel and sound of the instrument. Focusing on reading a chart will prevent you from focusing on hearing the instrument.

    Ymmv

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    After collecting all this information, I should post that I've just bought an instrument from the classifieds. I could go into how I came to that decision, but, basically, it is the result of some good stuff posted in various threads and in the Newbies social group. Wish me luck that it's the right thing.

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Just a quick side note regarding the code for quoting. The ending code is [/QUOTE] and the beginning code is [QUOTE]. I'm saying it that way because if I had done it the other way around, it would have produced a quote bubble, and you wouldn't have seen the code. Also, to include the username of the person being quoted, type that right after the = in that code. You can preview your efforts by going to Advanced.

    I mention this because I've been seeing it a bit much lately. I learned how it works by taking note of the effects along the way. It's not difficult, nor a big deal, but it only works this one way. If not done correctly, the result is confusing. Keep in mind, posts can be edited for up to three hours after the initial post time.

    That said, I applaud your effort in trying not to quote the entire post in the above example. There's no need to do that, when you wish to include or emphasize or respond to only certain parts of someone else's post.

    Just trying to help out here. Neatness counts in all forms of communication.

    We now return to your previously scheduled programming, already in progress.
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Why Nashville???????? Simple: because Walter Carter has the finest shop in the nation, possibly the world, and he'll let you play everything there, regardless of who you are...(unlike that other guy down the street) .....

    Stan Jay was a true gem in the industry. As a teenager he let me play my first D'Angelico, even though he knew I did not have the money for it. He recognized someone who obviously was interested in nice instruments and saw it as part of his purpose to educate me knowing that I would come back later and we would establish a lifetime relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Just a quick side note regarding the code for quoting. The ending code is
    and the beginning code is
    . I'm saying it that way because if I had done it the other way around, it would have produced a quote bubble, and you wouldn't have seen the code. Also, to include the username of the person being quoted, type that right after the = in that code. You can preview your efforts by going to Advanced.

    I mention this because I've been seeing it a bit much lately. I learned how it works by taking note of the effects along the way. It's not difficult, nor a big deal, but it only works this one way. If not done correctly, the result is confusing. Keep in mind, posts can be edited for up to three hours after the initial post time.

    That said, I applaud your effort in trying not to quote the entire post in the above example. There's no need to do that, when you wish to include or emphasize or respond to only certain parts of someone else's post.

    Just trying to help out here. Neatness counts in all forms of communication.

    We now return to your previously scheduled programming, already in progress.
    Thanks, JB. I needed - and appreciate - the info. Probably others appreciate it also. See corrected version above.

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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    Just a quick side note regarding the code for quoting.
    Simplest way is to "Reply With Quote" then edit to leave what you want to comment on. You don't have to remember any code for that. You can also reply and quote multiple posts by that little icon to the right of the "Reply With Quote" one. Just click a few of them and hit Reply to thread and you have multiple quotes (which you can then edit).

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    Stan Jay was a true gem in the industry. As a teenager he let me play my first D'Angelico, even though he knew I did not have the money for it. He recognized someone who obviously was interested in nice instruments and saw it as part of his purpose to educate me knowing that I would come back later and we would establish a lifetime relationship.
    I remember a number of visits at Mandolin Brothers where Stan would be genuinely excited to show you the treasures he lately uncovered. One time I came in, really a poor slob just getting by, and he insisted I play a Loar-signed K-5 mandocello. He knew I would not buy it on the spot but we shared the enthusiasm and passion for rare and fine instruments.
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  32. #70
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Yes, sir. Of course. Just trying to help anyone who might have messed up in order to help neaten up any such mess, and may not know how to proceed. Such things may appear more daunting than they are.

    And you're welcome, Sherry. I deduced what had happened right off, having been-there-done-that enough times over the years.
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    After collecting all this information, I should post that I've just bought an instrument from the classifieds. I could go into how I came to that decision, but, basically, it is the result of some good stuff posted in various threads and in the Newbies social group. Wish me luck that it's the right thing.
    Congratulations, Sherry!! I'm popping a virtual cork in honor of you and your new mandolin. Can't wait to hear a thorough review (and maybe a recording?) once you have it in hand. Yeehaw!!
    Now, what was I after when I wandered in here?

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    First of all it sounds like you are on your way to a great acquisition. Congrats! Might be one of the most followed threads in quite a while. Those of us that have been through this (everyone raises their hand) enjoyed the anticipation throughout your posts.
    I will very respectfully disagree with Sblock however regarding using standard notation versus learning by ear. If you already know how to read don't abandon it. About twenty years ago I went off on a tangent and took piano lessons thinking I was going to be the next Duke Ellington. Well.... The best thing that came out of that was I learned to read standard notation. I'm able to sit in front of my music and learn a tune without ever hearing it. Or I could wait til I heard it ( or maybe never heard it) and say maybe I should listen to it many times over and figure it out. But it's there in front of you in print! If you know the language use it.
    And no I'm not in any way dissing any one who chooses to follow their path to enlightenment!
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  35. #73
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila Lagrand View Post
    Congratulations, Sherry!! I'm popping a virtual cork in honor of you and your new mandolin. Can't wait to hear a thorough review (and maybe a recording?) once you have it in hand. Yeehaw!!
    I might just do that, Sheila! Stay tuned.

  36. #74
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Gnann View Post
    First of all it sounds like you are on your way to a great acquisition. Congrats! Might be one of the most followed threads in quite a while. Those of us that have been through this (everyone raises their hand) enjoyed the anticipation throughout your posts.
    I will very respectfully disagree with Sblock however regarding using standard notation versus learning by ear. If you already know how to read don't abandon it. About twenty years ago I went off on a tangent and took piano lessons thinking I was going to be the next Duke Ellington. Well.... The best thing that came out of that was I learned to read standard notation. I'm able to sit in front of my music and learn a tune without ever hearing it. Or I could wait til I heard it ( or maybe never heard it) and say maybe I should listen to it many times over and figure it out. But it's there in front of you in print! If you know the language use it.
    And no I'm not in any way dissing any one who chooses to follow their path to enlightenment!
    Thanks for the encouragement, Bob! I hope others have learned from all the terrific responses here. As to learning standard notation, I have no regrets. I love being able to pick up many pieces of music and jumping right in. I must admit I'm envious of you who play as sblock described, though. Not sure how close I'll come, but I'm gonna try. How do you know the key, anyway, when it isn't announced? Never mind. Getting off subject of the thresd.

  37. #75
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    Default Re: Music Store Etiquette

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherry Cadenhead View Post
    Thanks for the encouragement, Bob! I hope others have learned from all the terrific responses here. As to learning standard notation, I have no regrets. I love being able to pick up many pieces of music and jumping right in. I must admit I'm envious of you who play as sblock described, though. Not sure how close I'll come, but I'm gonna try. How do you know the key, anyway, when it isn't announced? Never mind. Getting off subject of the thresd.
    To stay on this tangent just a moment longer. . .while I agree with Sblock about the need to be able to play by ear, knowing music notation gives us an ability that is often overlooked but has great utility. We tend to think of it from the reading aspect, but the writing side of the coin might be even more useful.

    While I might not accurately remember a snippet of a song I hear in passing, if I do a quick transcription of the melody, I can bring it back and play around with it. When I am playing with my duo partner or others, if I need to work on something later on, I can quickly write down a few bars for later study. I find this to be incredibly useful.

    Of course, do what works for you. For me, the ability to read music, which I learned as a young child, has been a huge help to me throughout my musical life. I wish I had a way to thank my childhood piano teacher for giving me that little piece of magic.
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