NEW Collings Oval Hole- Suggestions?

[Alex_Rueb]

Dear mandolin community,

After receiving a flood of email requests for oval hole mandolins, Bill Collings is getting ready to start designing a new Collings oval-hole model. Bill Collings and I had been brainstorming about which features, neck profiles, cosmetics, and woods to use for the new model when we thought "why not ask the players what they want?" We would love to hear any suggestions/ideas you might have about what you would like to see in the new model. The finished product will likely be a result of the comments posted in this thread. We are hoping to have a prototype finished by the 2006 Winter NAMM show in Anaheim, CA this January. Thanks in advance for your input.

NOTE: Please direct any questions to sales@collingsguitars.com (we will not be responding to questions/comments posted on this message board).

Sincerely,

Alex Rueb
Collings Guitars
11025 Signal Hill Dr.
Austin, TX 78737
www.collingsguitars.com
512.288.7776

[jasona]

I assume this will be a carved top mandolin. I love the Sobel style and sound. We already have lots of Gibson type mandolins--so I'd really love to see graduations more akin to the best of Lyon and Healys. I'm a fan of a body join at the 14th fret (not the 12th) and a slightly wider neck.

Just make them sing!

[otterly2k]

While I haven't played the F's, I am a big fan of the MT's. I'd like to see oval hole versions of the full Collings line, starting with the MT. I'd add a request for some without sunburst finish. re: playability, etc. I'd say it ain't broke... keep the same neck profile, nice radius, etc.
my 2c
KE

[fatt-dad]

This isn't fair, I want to see our community's suggestions.

f-d

[otterly2k]

f-d
I think you're seeing them! I interpreted the original post to say that this is a forum for ideas, but that they won't be responding to questions here. Maybe I misunderstood.
Clarification would be helpful, Alex.

[Alex_Rueb]

Hello everybody,

It looks like this thread is already off to a great start.
Just to clarify: Please post your comments and suggestions on this message board. If you have a question that you would like to receive a response to- please send email to: sales@collingsguitars.com

Thanks again,
Alex Rueb
Collings Guitars

[PCypert]

Emailed you offline, but will post here too. Would like a non sunburst finish, but maybe a natural on top and a darker color on the back. I second the idea of some Lyon and Healy Graduations. I would also like to see some non maple back woods if possible and maybe some cedar up top. Maybe Cedar/Rosewood? Rosette around the oval. Snakehead would be nice, but the traditional headstock is nice. Dibs!
Paul

[Pedal Steel Mike]

Notwithstanding that I'm happy with what I've got and am not planning on buying any more mandolins, (or guitars for that matter) the thing I would want in a new one would be 22 frets and easy access to the uppermost ones. I'd want the neck to join the body at the 14th fret, and the equivilent of a cutaway.

[fatt-dad]

What about the pancake? I'm just thinking that you guys would do a fine job of making the perfect "sleeper", you know an Army-Navy that blows away everything in it's path - ha.

f-d

[stevem]

The only way for me to get an f-4 copy is to put myself on a 3-6 month wait list while never having a chance to hear what the actual instrument will sound like. More accessable f-4's would be great news.

14 frets good. But, I say don't be afraid to copy the overall stylistic feel of Gibson teens f-4's. Nothing more beautiful has been created since, IMO. (No ties to Gibson, I don't own a Gibson, etc.) My favorite all-time pictures are here:

Link to yummiest mando pictures ever...

(I would have posted pics, but not sure if that's a copyright violation).

[fatt-dad]

So, I guess that would mean the carbon-fiber reinforced non-adjustible-truss-rod-type construction, which wouldn't bother me at all. I mean if it's made well and suitably reinforced who adjusts the neck of a mandolin anyhow?

[John Flynn]

I think something like the MT, only with cross-bracing to go with the oval hole. My favorite finish on an oval is a "pumpkin top," the top finished blond with dark back, sides and neck. I would definitely consider buying one!

[Bob DeVellis]

I'd be very pleased with an oval hole with a warm, complex sound similar to the vintage oval holes. If that can be done on a 14-fret neck, so much the better; but a 12-fret neck wouldn't be a problem for me. A snakehead-type headstock is attractive and functional. A slightly wider neck width and radiused board are conducive to they musical styles most likely to attract people to oval holes (e.g., old-time,Irish, folk). Spruce over maple sounds just fine, but other combinations that work acoustically would be equally acceptable to me. Cedar tops may be worth considering, as well, for example.

Although this description might sound like a lot of instruments now being made, the differences I'd hope for would be tone and availability. Many present-day oval holes sound more like a bad F than a good oval hole. Even some of the modern oval holes that I like don't have the warmth or complexity of a nice old oval-hole. Vintage Gibsons, Vega cylinder-backs, and Lyon & Healys are examples of the warm, complex tone I have in mind. They're all different from one another but all have a classic oval tone that is rich and complex. Years are part of that, of course, but I think materials and construction are also a big factor.

There well may be some individual builders making instruments with more of the classic tone but the limited opportunities to try them out and the delays in actually getting your hands on 'em are barriers that production and distribution on a larger scale could avoid.

Although nice vintage oval holes are out there, they often have issues that accompany that great old tone. A new, affordable, reliable, instrument with the same tonal character would be very welcomed. While volume is always a plus, I wouldn't be put off by a somewhat quiter instrument if the tone were there.

Cosmetically, I'm a big fan of black-faced instruments with blonde back and sides. All blonde is nice, too. ALthough I'm not a huge fan of sunburst finishes, the appearance is really less important than the tone. A full line of pear-shaped and florentine styles would be nice, however. I'd be most tempted by an affordable A-style (be it pear-shaped, two-pointer, or whatever) at this point. It needn't be fancy. I can only imagine superb playability and construction from Collings (based on my MF-5). The clincher would be getting that fat, warm, mellow, smoky tone that all the newer instruments seem to be missing.

To sum up my personal feelings:

(1) there are any number of oval-holes out there that are more like watered-down f-hole instruments than "true" (read "classic") oval holes. No need for another oval hole that's f-like

(2) there are also plenty of old oval holes but they're more finicky than a new instrument and lack some now-common features like radiused boards or wider boards.

(3) there are small builders who can work with customers to produce the kind of instrument I have in mind but with considerable time delays

(4) the market niche that seems yet to be filled is oval hole instruments with a classic sound that you can get your hands on in a variety of outlets.

Build it and they will come!

[otterly2k]

yeah.. what bob said!

[keithd]

I second all of Bob's thoughtful and well-informed comments. A Collings modelled on a Gibson teens A would be most welcome. I'd even consider the transverse brace vs. an X-braced top. Black-face over blonde or light stain would be very nice - no bursts. Personally, I'm a fan of the Gibson teens neck profile as well; 12 frets, fairly thick V-profile, engaged fret-board, etc. It would be nice to combine those features with the precision and playability of a new Collings instrument. I especially agree that what I WOULDN"T want is an A-5 type mandolin that happens to have an oval hole instead of f-holes.

Keith

[margora]

I own an MT2 which I use exclusively for classical mandolin (I play in a mandolin orchestra). I would be very interested in an oval hole Collings modelled after the early 20th century Gibsons (or L&H) ESPECIALLY if it had a pickguard.

[Tom C]

Keep 12 fret if it more resembles traditional gib*n F4 tone. Have a nice rosette around sound hole. I have not seen anything better than the traditional Gibs*n style.
Han's does a great job in duplicating this. The mando looks like it's missing something without it or one that is too thin or dark. I do not like sunbursts on oval holes since the hole is in the middle where the burst explodes from.
Maybe an 12 for 15fret option??

[AndyG]

The classic Gibson F4 is a beautiful design which still looks great a century on.As for cosmetic appointments,simple and tasteful within a fully bound body and headstock do it for me.

[JGWoods]

Hey make it look like a Rigel G110 with an oval hole. I'm tired of Gibsons, and Gibson look alikes. If you must make your mandolins look like someone elses mandolins make'em look like little fat strats, like Rigel.
Nah.
Make something original.
nice big neck- fast frets, radius.
oval hole kind of tone- not a chopper.
something to hook the strap to on the upper bout.
scale in the 13-14" range.
Better tuners than everybody else
adjustable bridge
Maybe graphite for neck stiffner, also braces.
a couple of choices of woods, and trim/finish

surprise me

[Jeff Baldwin]

hmmmm a collings oval A model, appointed like the MT, comparitively priced
would probably hit the mark with a large group of current oval-hole A players -
irish and old time. A substantial v neck (like the MT and early gibsons)works
for me. #A fingerboard that is slightly wider at the nut, would be nice too.
Let Bill loose with the tone...I trust he will define a Collings sound for oval
hole mandolin, as he did with his f holes. Good Luck. #I look forward to seeing
and hearing the results

[Onesound]

I second the shorter neck, puts the sweet spot closer to the soundhole / picking area. #What we don't need is a oval hole that sounds like a standard bluegrass instrument.

There are two directions the tone can go - deep and mellow or sweet and bright (not harsh and brittle) - perhaps two different models needed to cover both.

Agree that sunburst is out - just too common. #Need something a little unique but not bizzare. #Suspect classical players would appreciate violin stain or light stained soundboard with dark sides. #A black top, black and white binding and natural sides and back is awesome.

Ebony fretboard, slight radius, neck slightly wider than a typical bluegrass mando. #Like a V contour. A small fretboard extension is OK, just not too much.

Tasteful sound hole rosetta (understated better than gaudy), soundhole should be bound.

Oh yea, option to buy with/without pickguard.

Weight should be balanced so it sits well when played in classical seating position.

[PhilGE]

In addition to all the wonderful comments so far, I'd request this:

Please produce something like the Vega Cylinderback.

I still kick myself for not purchasing one I had my hands on 5 years ago or so at Elderly. I know Rigel's reproductions are wonderful, but at about $6k, they're way out of my league. I'm kind of surprised that no one has brought the cylinderback back into production, given the raves on it's tone and volume.

-Phil

[John Rosett]

i'm squarely in the "make one like a teens gibson" camp. i own an MT and a teens gibson A, and love them both. if collings made an oval hole A with a 12 fret neck joint and the fingerboard right on the top like a vintage gibson, i would have to figure out how to get one.

[357mag]

Steven and his pics nailed it for me. Even as a newbie, its easy to appreciate the beautiful, classic lines of an F4.

[grsnovi]

I own a Collings MF.

I'd buy a Collings F4-style oval hole.

I'd want a less sharp V-profile neck than on my MF (more rounded like on my teens H2 'dola).

I also like the color of my 'dola and I'd want a Collings unique headstock inlay and soundhole binding.