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Thread: octave on valium?

  1. #1
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    Default octave on valium?

    I ran across this Bruce Weber short promo video on octave mandolins from a few years ago. He describes their 20" scale octaves as "octave on valium" in comparison to their 22" scale octaves. I think he is mostly referring to differences in volume, being able to compete with banjos and do well in bluegrass situations. I have owned a longer scale octave (22.5" not Weber) in the past, and compared to my current 20" Bitterroot F I don't really think volume wise they are that much different. In other ways, the short scale is very different, but I don't think I would characterize the 20" this way.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8fv2vz9rsI
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    I have a Weber Gallatin and a Weber Black Ice both 20", always thought that was fine, the electric Eastwood I have is 23", and that is almost too much, so I guess a 22" wouldn't be bad, can't be sure of the length on the 2 Freshwaters had.

    That River looks schaweeeeet though.
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    I agree! That River looks so fine.
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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    "Octave on valium" might not have been the best marketing message for the difference in a 20" scale OM.

    I play a 22" scale Weber OM, and have been able to test-drive a few others with shorter scales owned by friends. The main difference to my ears with the longer scale is more sustain, not volume or anything else. The string gauges needed for good response at 22" just hold the note a little longer, which is great if you mostly play slower tunes like I do on my OM. I save the faster stuff for other instruments like mandolin or flute.

    If I wanted to play faster tunes on an OM, I'd want one that would "speak faster" and with a little less sustain like a 20" scale instrument. I'm not sure what Bruce meant by the valium comment there, because you can actually play faster on a shorter scale OM.

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    Registered User lowtone2's Avatar
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    I'm sure he meant a more relaxed sound. Less strident, etc...

    In general, a shorter scale instrument should sustain longer with a smoother attack.
    Last edited by lowtone2; Mar-13-2021 at 5:03pm.

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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtone2 View Post
    I'm sure he meant a more relaxed sound. Less strident, etc...

    In general, a shorter scale instrument should sustain longer with a smoother attack.
    Yeah, that's what my association would be re: "valium" - having taken the stuff before medical procedures (and had the vet prescribe it to give to a fearful dog I used to have prior to a vet visit) I would think in terms of relaxing rather than speedy!
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    I usually like longer scale octave mandolins and larger bodies, feeling that scale length and body air volume are a big part of the voice, but.... this 1999 Gilchrist played by Sierra Hull puts all of that out the window and makes me want to build some simple A bodies with short scales:

    https://cartervintage.com/collection...-3-octave-1999

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caB5g_Kaxfk
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    Quote Originally Posted by j. condino View Post
    I usually like longer scale octave mandolins and larger bodies, feeling that scale length and body air volume are a big part of the voice, but.... this 1999 Gilchrist played by Sierra Hull puts all of that out the window and makes me want to build some simple A bodies with short scales:

    https://cartervintage.com/collection...-3-octave-1999

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caB5g_Kaxfk
    That OM sounds wonderful. But, at $16,500, I think I will stick with my Eastman.

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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    I can now clear this up definitively, I think. I just talked to Bruce Weber in person this week.

    Background: My wife and I just got our second Covid vaccinations, and with the idea of "Road Trip" to celebrate, I thought of driving from western coastal WA to Montana where Bruce is putting together his new Montana Lutherie shop, for some TLC on my Weber OM. It needed a refret and some other touch-ups. He said he could do the work in a day or two as long as we were in the area, so it was a combination instrument drop-off, pick-up, and great road trip to get the heck out of our town for me and my S.O. after being cooped up for a year with the pandemic (all CDC precautions followed).

    Bruce is a great person to talk to, if you've never met him in person. Anyway, he did a fret replacement (they were getting gnarly) and fretboard plane, adjusted the nut and saddle, and the OM plays like butter now.

    So anyway, we got to talking about OMs, string gauges etc., and he mentioned how the shorter scale OMs are like an octave on valium. Un-prompted by me.

    So of course I had to mention the Mandolin Cafe thread here. Here's what he means: that a 22" scale OM has a sustain and power that you don't get with the shorter 20" scale length. You can beef up the string gauges on a shorter scale, but put that same set of strings on a 22" scale OM and it will sound even better. He's just a fan of the longer 22" scale OMs, if you have the hand size and reach to handle the fingering, and I am too.

    No disrespect to players of 20" OMs. There are good reasons to choose that size, especially if you're playing the faster tunes and need the instrument to "speak" faster and handle more easily. I don't even try to play the fast stuff on my 22" OM.

    P.S. Right now Bruce is doing doing instrument repair and tune-ups (any brand, not just Weber) while he's getting his main shop together with a spray booth under the Montana Lutherie brand (NFI). After that, he'll do one-off custom job mandolin builds for clients. If I can ever get the money together for an F-style mandocello, I know who will build it.

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    Registered User Simon DS's Avatar
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    I’d love to own a Weber octave!

    At the same time, at present, I have an Ashbury 20.5 inch scale length type 32E, I play it mando style and my dream would be an 18 inch (or less) scale Weber octave or maybe a big bodied, one-note-sounding-at-a-time mandola. (I like the one frequency per note plonking big sound.)

    On my octave I already have enough sustain to handle and want to play it fast, heavy-but-agile, rolling, bouncing and aggressive! Like Molly Tuttle plays the guitar, but mando-style.

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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    Folded path I also have a Weber F style F hole mandocello in the back of mind, hard to find used ones!
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

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    no comment on the valium comparison (no experience in that department) but here's my Weber octave next to my Lyn Hardy short scale octave
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    To me, the solution is obvious. One of each Would love to find a used Weber Bridger OM, but have yet to see one for sale in the last couple of years.
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    Valium may be worth a try.

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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Gies View Post
    Valium may be worth a try.
    Does it alleviate Octave Mandolin Acquisition Syndrome?
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    FP, agree that a 22.5 inch or longer OM gives you sustain and drive that the shorter scales can’t, but, damn, I just don’t have the finger length to make the longer scales work for me with lead/melody work. I can bang away on 2 finger and barre chords with the best of them, but that can be limiting. My 20 inch OM is a versatile little slice of heaven...for me...with mandola strings...

    Bruce is the man, though, no objection there...
    Chuck

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: octave on valium?

    Quote Originally Posted by CES View Post
    FP, agree that a 22.5 inch or longer OM gives you sustain and drive that the shorter scales can’t, but, damn, I just don’t have the finger length to make the longer scales work for me with lead/melody work. I can bang away on 2 finger and barre chords with the best of them, but that can be limiting. My 20 inch OM is a versatile little slice of heaven...for me...with mandola strings...

    Bruce is the man, though, no objection there...
    I hear 'ya!! I couldn't do that faster lead/melody work on a longer scale OM either.

    I've basically compartmentalized my instruments for different types of tunes. I enjoy playing the slower stuff on my 22" Weber, like Irish/Scottish airs, "slow reels" and marches. I play the faster dance tunes like jigs, strathspeys and reels on mandolin or flute where my fingers can move faster. And man, can I move faster on the flute than anything else, but that's a whole 'nother discussion. Different instrumental universe.

    Anyway, the point is to choose the right tool for the job. When a 20" scale OM is the right tool for the job, then that's what you should play.

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