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Thread: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

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    Default NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    I'm now a number of weeks into playing mandolin (after other instruments), and I have a selection of method and exercise books recommended by the Forum - thanks for that, they're great. One thing I've noticed is that there does appear to be a leaning towards NVNVNV... (down up down up down up...) being the default picking pattern recommended for quavers and shorter notes, when there isn't an obvious reason for using something different. However I find myself often starting tunes (the first full bar note, not just lead-ins) on an up pick stroke, and starting tricky groups of notes or syncopations on an Up.

    So - I understand that at least some classical mandolinists aim to play a lighter stroke on the Up, or to hit just one string on an up stroke. Is the Up stroke inevitably lighter sounding, or are there other good reasons to revert to NVNVNV when there isn't an obvious reason to play something else?

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    Mandolin user MontanaMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    If you stomp your foot to the beat, you’ll be hard pressed to stomp down and pick stroke up and not tip over.
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Down on the down beat, typically. If there is a pick up note, that would be an up beat and it would feel natural to me to pick that going up.

    There are other pick patterns. Jigs for example are often picked DUD DUD DUD or sometimes DUU DUU DUU as a way of getting the rhythm emphasis.

    Hope that helps.
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    If you stomp your foot to the beat, you’ll be hard pressed to stomp down and pick stroke up and not tip over.
    I can do that, maybe I'm just wired wrong...

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    I can do that, maybe I'm just wired wrong...
    It’s 2021, being different is allowed
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Today is pi-day. So shouldn't that be PiVPiVPiVPiVPiVPiV ? Or ΠVΠVΠVΠVΠV ?

    Pardon the irrational thought.
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    Today is pi-day. So shouldn't that be PiVPiVPiVPiVPiVPiV ? Or ΠVΠVΠVΠVΠV ?

    Pardon the irrational thought.
    Google she say...

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    March 14 is Pi Day. It is a day to celebrate the mathematical constant pi (π) and to eat lots of pie. ... It is celebrated in countries that follow the month/day (m/dd) date format, because the digits in the date, March 14 or 3/14, are the first three digits of π (3.14). Pi Day was founded by Physicist Larry Shaw in 1988.

    Let's see - "Pi Up Pi Up Pi Up Pi Up" vs "Down Up Down Up Down Up Down Up" - OK, Pi is definitely easier.

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    Registered User Paul Cowham's Avatar
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Eating lots of pie is a great idea, but the rest of your post is both irrational and transcendental? (Sorry for the maths joke)

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by HonketyHank View Post
    Today is pi-day. So shouldn't that be PiVPiVPiVPiVPiVPiV ? Or ΠVΠVΠVΠVΠV ?

    Pardon the irrational thought.
    Not only irrational but also transcendental (Lindemann 1882).

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    So - I understand that at least some classical mandolinists aim to play a lighter stroke on the Up, or to hit just one string on an up stroke. Is the Up stroke inevitably lighter sounding, or are there other good reasons to revert to NVNVNV when there isn't an obvious reason to play something else?
    Classical technique calls for playing up and down strokes the same.

    There are loads of exceptions, but DUDU should be your default.

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMatt View Post
    It’s 2021, being different is allowed
    On paper anyway..

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    Classical technique calls for playing up and down strokes the same.

    There are loads of exceptions, but DUDU should be your default.
    I like the idea of a default. I mean, when tackling a new piece of music without notations as to direction I default to DUDU, and then if it is awkward try some other things. It works so very many times.
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by David L View Post
    Classical technique calls for playing up and down strokes the same.

    There are loads of exceptions, but DUDU should be your default.
    A) Thanks, but I have a well known method book that says some classical players choose to hit only one string on the up pick (unless they have a reason to do otherwise). B) Yes, but why should DUDU be the default, David?

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    [QUOTE]some classical players choose to hit only one string on the up pick[QUOTE]

    When I studied classical mandolin many years ago I was encouraged to do that, particularly during tremolo.

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    I'm accustomed to tapping or stamping my foot on the downbeat so it feels natural to pick down on the first beat of a measure.
    Bren

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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Quote Originally Posted by maxr View Post
    A) Thanks, but I have a well known method book that says some classical players choose to hit only one string on the up pick (unless they have a reason to do otherwise). B) Yes, but why should DUDU be the default, David?
    Default - not absolute, just default. Why? To set the groove. But this does not apply to some musical forms, necessarily, like jigs,etc.

    Playing 2/2 or 4/4 (common time, "common" is sort of default as well, right?) alternating down/up with the beat actually helps most players to keep great rhythm and helps to prevent awkward situations where you may lose the groove. It is as said a default, not an end-all be-all.

    This does not mean you start a tune on a downstroke. If the first note is an eighth note, for example, on the three-and count, you would start with an upstroke when playing with an alternating down/up picking style. The whole point is down on the beat and up between the beats!

    Consider that there is a reason that these things are commonly taught. Doesn't mean you have to play that way, but it is not an arbitrary default pattern, it is default by virtue of all the above.

    Also, it can be better understood if we talk about the pulse of a tune rather than "beats" and "between beats" (although beats certainly have to do with pulse ... no heartbeats = no pulse).

    What I mean is that if the tune is mostly full of sixteenth notes rather than eighths, you may stroke down twice per beat and up twice per beat. The important thing is that you get a groove going, that flows with the pulse of the music, however you personally get there.
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    Default Re: NVNVNVNV - reasons?

    Me?, I'm sticking with DUDUDU. Can't even pronounce NVNVNVNV!
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